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PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2014 5:02 pm 
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I am finally getting to these. I will put my comments in spoiler blocks for those who haven't finished it yet, and I will split them into sections corresponding with the parts.

Part 1



Part 2



Part III


Part IV



Final Thoughts


Anyway, those are my thoughts.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 1:42 am 
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Part 2

This is sort of a problem with interpretation I think.
For one, Raef isn't like what we know of other planeswalkers. It... sort of taints the perception of the character to expect him to act like say... Jace or Gideon who are good with lying to people.
Aside from that, one of the things I did on purpose might have actually backfired in this situation.
You see, I wanted to create a clear departure from young Raef's personality and the Raef we're seeing now. All of chapter 1 was dealing with developing his conflict with little touches shaping his personality, and I feel like Section 1 and 3 are very much is in line with modern Raef, but specifically NOT with the Raef we see on Ellysium.
I thought I had enough of Raef established at that point that the flashback wouldn't overwrite that, but the more rash Raef apparently cemented in your head more firmly than the mature one.
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Part III
Two reasons for that.
1) I didn't write the epigrams. I lifted them from Dissension.
2) Each of them serves to thematically define the chapter they head, but this is, as noted, an intermission in the story. It establishes events, but doesn't tie into the larger narrative's arc.

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Part IV

Spoiler


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Final Thoughts

Spoiler


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Spoiler

Spoiler


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Spoiler

Curious what you would choose for that.

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Yet on the morn we wake to find / that mem'ry left so far behind.
To deafened ears we ask, unseen / "Which is life and which the dream?"


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 1:47 am 
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Barinellos wrote:
Curious what you would choose for that.

Honestly, so far, Cruel Ultimatum.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 9:16 pm 
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Barinellos wrote:
Curious what you would choose for that.

Honestly, so far, Cruel Ultimatum.

Huh... sort of surprised at that.
I mean, it's a much shorter piece to begin with and doesn't really have a lot of thematic significance, so it's much much more straightforward.

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At twilight's end, the shadow's crossed / a new world birthed, the elder lost.
Yet on the morn we wake to find / that mem'ry left so far behind.
To deafened ears we ask, unseen / "Which is life and which the dream?"


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 9:23 pm 
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I can't really say why, I just think it's wonderfully atmospheric, and captures the whole scene perfectly.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 9:29 pm 
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I can't really say why, I just think it's wonderfully atmospheric, and captures the whole scene perfectly.

Well, without a doubt my biggest strength is imagery so...

But really, it doesn't say much so I'd hardly say it was my strongest, even if it is the most tightly written.

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At twilight's end, the shadow's crossed / a new world birthed, the elder lost.
Yet on the morn we wake to find / that mem'ry left so far behind.
To deafened ears we ask, unseen / "Which is life and which the dream?"


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 21, 2014 12:08 pm 
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A note before you read this: I actually saved this web page from before anyone had done any commentary on it, so if you've edited the story since posting it, I may not be aware of them. Anyway I finished Part 2 several days ago but forgot to post my feedback.

Part 2 overview

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PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2014 8:07 pm 
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Just edited my last post there to solve a tag error that made it very hard to read. Also, I'm going to try finishing this in the next... Let's say in the next week/week-and-a-half, since I'm currently not reading any internet-based thing and I actually find myself wanting to catch up on some of the things I'm missing around here. Sorry that I've been neglecting this.


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PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2014 8:39 pm 
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Part III overview

Overall, very fine piece of work. I find that I enjoyed this bit more than the earlier parts, and that probably has to do with how fast it feels. It doesn't seem to ebb and flow as the earlier parts had, but rather rushes forward constantly. Even your descriptions, like of the Undercity streets and manors, are cut shorter for advancement of the plot.

Or perhaps I'm just starved for a piece of ye olde flavor material. I remember falling in love with Ravnica over Matt Cavotta's articles, especially the Orzhov one.


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PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2014 9:20 pm 
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Is that a Doctor Who reference I spy during the fight scene?

:incognito: Maybe.
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Overall, very fine piece of work. I find that I enjoyed this bit more than the earlier parts, and that probably has to do with how fast it feels. It doesn't seem to ebb and flow as the earlier parts had, but rather rushes forward constantly. Even your descriptions, like of the Undercity streets and manors, are cut shorter for advancement of the plot.

Or perhaps I'm just starved for a piece of ye olde flavor material. I remember falling in love with Ravnica over Matt Cavotta's articles, especially the Orzhov one.

glad you liked it.
I feel like out of all of the parts, this one has the tightest connection to the setting, in part because it's a lot more about the setting than about Raef.
That, in itself, is one of the reasons this was logged as an intermission.

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At twilight's end, the shadow's crossed / a new world birthed, the elder lost.
Yet on the morn we wake to find / that mem'ry left so far behind.
To deafened ears we ask, unseen / "Which is life and which the dream?"


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PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2014 6:16 pm 
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Legacies pt IV overview


This section felt smoother as well, though slower than part III. Again, I think it's because instead of quickening and slowing for action/non-action parts it's a continuous pace (I am avoiding the word "pacing" though, because I don't rally know how to use it). I think the slow buildup to the revelation fitted well, too, and made it feel worth it to finally get there.

I love how you come full circle at the end with the talk of dreams. It really feels like a nice wrap-up to the entire story.

I can't really think of anything to say on the thing as a whole that I haven't already said in one or more of the parts.


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PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2014 10:12 pm 
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I think saying "I clapped at the door" sounds a little funny, like he stood outside giving a short round of applause or something. Just my thoughts.

That's exactly what it is. In many eastern european cultures (such as Hungary and the slavic cultures which Ravnica was based off of) it was considered rude to knock on a door unless they had a device specifically for that purpose. So rather than beat on the door, you'd stand outside and clap.

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The line:"[...]I understand now, what I felt before. It makes sense why you change."
Confuses me slightly. My first reaction is "that should be changed with a d," but I'm not really sure what's being said here.

It's something he is capable of, as displayed in the first chapter.

Quote:
I think the slow buildup to the revelation fitted well, too, and made it feel worth it to finally get there.

I love how you come full circle at the end with the talk of dreams. It really feels like a nice wrap-up to the entire story.

I can't really think of anything to say on the thing as a whole that I haven't already said in one or more of the parts.

Thanks! Yeah, the build up was something I was hoping carried with it the appropriate impact and the mirror in the first part and last part was important to showing a fundamental shift in how Raef views himself and that itself is kind of representative of the journey that Legacies represents. Glad you liked it.

Now there's just the question of actually doing a final edit and... coming up with an appropriate name. Ugh.... that's the thing that really kills me. The bloody name.

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At twilight's end, the shadow's crossed / a new world birthed, the elder lost.
Yet on the morn we wake to find / that mem'ry left so far behind.
To deafened ears we ask, unseen / "Which is life and which the dream?"


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PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2014 4:10 pm 
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Excellent work. I think this is a strong piece on the whole, particularly part 1 which you of course know that I like. It does an excellent job of establishing Raef as a character and establishing the dynamic he has with Raefiel from both a character and narrative perspective. Like OL, I really dig the way this plays with the traditional demon-inside-the-hero narrative, particularly since I'm watching Angel and Buffy the Vampire Slayer for the first time right now and there's some fun parallels between Raef and Angel and Spike. Oh, and there's a bit of The Incredible Hulk in here too, in the way you create a believable tension for the viewer--we don't want Raefiel to break free, even though it'd be cool to watch. You walk that line effectively.

You also handle the events of Retcons to Ravnica well here. Out of curiosity, when roughly does this take place with regards to the events of The Secretist? I'm guessing at least a couple of years before.

Here's some minor language quibbles:

Spoiler


And here's the more pressing issues I have with the narrative itself:
Spoiler


Otherwise, again, a strong piece and a good story overall. Part 1 is still one of the strongest things you've ever written.


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PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2014 5:06 pm 
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Excellent work. I think this is a strong piece on the whole, particularly part 1 which you of course know that I like. It does an excellent job of establishing Raef as a character and establishing the dynamic he has with Raefiel from both a character and narrative perspective. Like OL, I really dig the way this plays with the traditional demon-inside-the-hero narrative, particularly since I'm watching Angel and Buffy the Vampire Slayer for the first time right now and there's some fun parallels between Raef and Angel and Spike. Oh, and there's a bit of The Incredible Hulk in here too, in the way you create a believable tension for the viewer--we don't want Raefiel to break free, even though it'd be cool to watch. You walk that line effectively.
Grazie.
Quote:
You also handle the events of Retcons to Ravnica well here. Out of curiosity, when roughly does this take place with regards to the events of The Secretist? I'm guessing at least a couple of years before.
Approximately concurrent with the mid portions of Agents of Artifice. It was what I had to work with at the time I started it.
Quote:
And here's the more pressing issues I have with the narrative itself:
Spoiler

Spoiler


Quote:
The best solution might be to simply have him stay but have Raef notice that he's become conspicuously absent at some point during the fight (he might notice either during the fight itself or afterward when the angel stops). That would build the tension a little bit more for when Raef returns to the room, and would make Liet's actions more consistent with the overall elements within that scene.

I totally understand where you are coming from here, but at the same time, you can't call to note the fact he is missing until after the fact.
If I had Raef randomly notice his supervillain wasn't standing up there, it would split his focus and blow the tension in the fight.
When you're in a fight, you tunnel vision on your opponent. Not keeping the appropriate focus will get you hurt. BADLY.

I'm not disagreeing with any change, just saying that I'll have to look at the scene. Chances are, no matter what change I make, it won't exactly be as full as you expect.
Quote:
I'm almost inclined to say you should just make up a new verse for the Angel song to stick in front of part 3, since that is sort of an odd absence, and there's no reason we should feel super constrained to just what verses are available in canon.

Thematically part 3 sticks out. It IS an intermission and it doesn't fit with the overall arc.
I'm very honestly considering splitting it off as a full interlude and separate entity, in part because I feel like it works as a noodle incident in the last section that we can point to.

Quote:
The disappearance of the stones from the narrative bothers me a lot. I just don't see any utility in leaving the question of whether he took the stones up in the air. I mean, at the very least it makes things a little harder to build upon since a future author would have to either stay away from those stones or make a determination about their existence that could have a significant impact on Raef's perceived character.
I'm on the opposite end of that spectrum. I want the reader to decide for the moment.
I know it's a bit of a Spinning Top moment, and that can drive people absolutely nuts, but I want them to make the decision.

Plus... I dunno if I want him to have them or not. And let's face it, it isn't like Raef is a character people are looking to guest spot with.

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At twilight's end, the shadow's crossed / a new world birthed, the elder lost.
Yet on the morn we wake to find / that mem'ry left so far behind.
To deafened ears we ask, unseen / "Which is life and which the dream?"


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PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2014 5:42 pm 
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I don't know about that, I think Raef has a lot of potential, and we've got people here who've never seen him before, so you might be surprised by someone's desire to pick him up for a story.

Your impulse to bump the Interlude out makes sense to me, honestly, between the slight difference in feel and the absence of the stones in the rest of the narrative. I think that section would work better as a stand-alone story if you're really adamant about the stone thing not getting resolved right now.

That'd necessitate some rewriting of the beginning of part 4 I guess but it'd probably be pretty minor.

Anyway, I think you should listen to that impulse. It'd really tighten up the overall arc of the story, I'd say, and make the final part feel much more connected to the other parts, as well as reducing the distance between the appearances of Keris in the narrative. Really, both the interlude and the piece as a whole would be strengthened by breaking them apart in my opinion.


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PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2014 1:57 am 
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I don't know about that, I think Raef has a lot of potential, and we've got people here who've never seen him before, so you might be surprised by someone's desire to pick him up for a story.

Well, if someone could come up with something that seems fairly interesting, I'm not opposed to the idea, but you have to admit Raef's central focus is pretty narrow.
Quote:
Your impulse to bump the Interlude out makes sense to me, honestly, between the slight difference in feel and the absence of the stones in the rest of the narrative. I think that section would work better as a stand-alone story if you're really adamant about the stone thing not getting resolved right now.

That'd necessitate some rewriting of the beginning of part 4 I guess but it'd probably be pretty minor.

Yeah, I'm not sure how much rewriting would be necessary. I want to keep the dream sequence in there as the start, and I want little hints of a lost story in there, but I'd have to review how much basic knowledge is built into the start of part 4 and how much could be said without it.
Quote:
Anyway, I think you should listen to that impulse. It'd really tighten up the overall arc of the story, I'd say, and make the final part feel much more connected to the other parts, as well as reducing the distance between the appearances of Keris in the narrative. Really, both the interlude and the piece as a whole would be strengthened by breaking them apart in my opinion.

There's only one thing that I can think that would make everything a lot more difficult if I did it.

... I'd have to think of yet another title! :V

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At twilight's end, the shadow's crossed / a new world birthed, the elder lost.
Yet on the morn we wake to find / that mem'ry left so far behind.
To deafened ears we ask, unseen / "Which is life and which the dream?"


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PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2014 2:19 pm 
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One day I need to come back through this thread to see what other people have said and probably make some further comments. I tend to get my mind changed when I read/watch reviews.

It probably won't be anytime soon, though. You know why.

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Feel the Warm Fuzzies!


Quoth the Raven, for truth.
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PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2014 11:14 am 
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At this point I should probably bring to attention the fact only parts 1 and 2 of this story have actually been voted on. Legacies pt.1 and pt.2 are part of the Archives, but the original vote did not include considerations for the unfinished other parts at the time. I would suggest setting up another vote when you want them uploaded in the subforum here; I'd rather wait until then so that I can get the entire thing at once.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 1:55 pm 
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At this point I should probably bring to attention the fact only parts 1 and 2 of this story have actually been voted on. Legacies pt.1 and pt.2 are part of the Archives, but the original vote did not include considerations for the unfinished other parts at the time. I would suggest setting up another vote when you want them uploaded in the subforum here; I'd rather wait until then so that I can get the entire thing at once.

Yeah, I was going to hold off on the votes until I had a better title so that everything would be final.

And I think I finally got one!
What do people think about the title "To Choose Freedom"?
I think it's an apt title and works on a few levels.

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At twilight's end, the shadow's crossed / a new world birthed, the elder lost.
Yet on the morn we wake to find / that mem'ry left so far behind.
To deafened ears we ask, unseen / "Which is life and which the dream?"


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 3:22 pm 
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I like it. I'd have to read through the story again to see if I REALLY like it, but I like it.

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