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PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 6:19 am 
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Are the moons all on the same orbital plane?

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 11:33 am 
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Aaarrrgh wrote:
Are the moons all on the same orbital plane?

They're staggered.
The Yeti


This feels really really short to me, so I really need to find ways to flesh it out.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 4:34 am 
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Barinellos wrote:
Aaarrrgh wrote:
Are the moons all on the same orbital plane?

They're staggered.
The Yeti


This feels really really short to me, so I really need to find ways to flesh it out.


I only asked about the moons to see if they would regularly eclipse one another. Since that would be a simple thing to build a calendar on.

I like the Yeti. That is a clear and solid description, and the culture makes sense.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 1:14 pm 
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Aaarrrgh wrote:
I only asked about the moons to see if they would regularly eclipse one another. Since that would be a simple thing to build a calendar on.
They still fall into alignment with each other, they just don't have ane entire overlap at any given point. One of the things about them too is that they actually are different sizes, though I haven't really resolved the order and if it means any one is particularly THAT much closer or if it's further away and HUGE in comparison.

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I like the Yeti. That is a clear and solid description, and the culture makes sense.

Why thank you. I still feel it needs more, but the only thing I can think of to pad it out is to focus on major clans.
There's gotta be more I can do to expand on the shamans as well, but I haven't thought of anything.

Part of the Yeti story here is that they hunt the megabeasts that exist out on the flatlands, but I haven't really thought through what a lot of those are.

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To deafened ears we ask, unseen / "Which is life and which the dream?"


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 4:21 pm 
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Vampiric Genesis


Some meta notes that I'll more fully explain in the vampire section

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Last edited by Barinellos on Thu Dec 12, 2013 4:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 4:25 pm 
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Are the moons tidally locked, or would they appear to rotate from the planet?

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 4:28 pm 
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Are the moons tidally locked, or would they appear to rotate from the planet?

They do orbit, though I think at least one of them orbits so slowly that it appears near tidally locked for most of the year.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 5:13 pm 
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I love the vampire origin story. Magic could use some more Nosferatu types, I'd say.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 7:58 pm 
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I love the vampire origin story. Magic could use some more Nosferatu types, I'd say.

You're probably going to really love the vampires in general.
In part because I'm taking the piss from Twilight and having the slang for them be "The Cold Ones".

Aside from that, I also have an origin story set up in mind for the Faerie Queen in the same model.

Even though it'll come up later, I thought I'd go ahead and mention that, with the vampires, they're mostly humans, but there are a few vampire out there that come from the Yeti. The Yeti call them the Wendigo.
The elves live far enough away that they don't even entirely believe in the vampires and the vampires mostly can't catch faeries, though the fae are probably their favorite blood. The major problem with the fae is if there are any fae large enough that the vampires can catch them, they are likely powerful enough to just WRECK the vampire in question.
The Vulpin have vampire hunters, so any vulpin that succumb mostly throw themselves to the Aurora before they lose themselves.


So, on the Yeti, I'm having trouble finding natural places to expand them. I mean, I can go into some bits here and there about their cultural trapping, but besides Scrimshaw, I don't have any ideas. Maybe I should look into some more classical hunter gatherer anthropology but... that's a huge thing to try to tackle without any anchor.
I suppose it also doesn't help that I'm sort of distilling them out of elements from the Celtic, Tibetan, and Inuit cultures.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 13, 2013 1:11 pm 
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Yeti Marriage
Yeti are deeply emotional beings, and mate for life, but see no real need for formal arrangements or even much in the way of ceremony. The yeti clans are small enough individually that most everyone in the clan will be aware of a couple's feelings for each other and there is no real need to make it a public affair. That, however, does not mean that the Yeti are without a marriage ceremony, but the connotations involved are vastly different than with those cultures outside the mountain ranges.

A Yeti wedding ceremony is only invoked during an arranged marriage and the merging of two clans, a mandatory ordeal that happens at the very least once a generation, but more often several times in a lifetime. It is often from the children of a shaman that a child is selected to be betrothed to another clan, though it is only one clan that must provide such a child. The wedding ceremony is held at a prearranged time and place, often on the maternal side's ancestral lands and during the aurora, so that the ancestor spirits may attend as well. It is an affair that lasts several days, often in excess of a week. During the ceremony, the eldest shaman of the two clans will bless the coupling, invoking the gods and manitou to bring fortune and strength to the clans by binding the two together, making the yeti stronger as a whole. While it is ostensibly a celebration, it is often treated with appropriate gravity with elaborate contests of power and prowess meant to show the other clan the strength that they are embracing. The bride and groom do not participate, being placed upon a stage for much of the event to preside over it as the symbol of the marriage.

The two clans will not part ways until a full month has passed, to ensure that any child born to the new couple will be of both their ancestral lines. The shaman born member of the wedding party will go with the clan they have married into.


Okay, so I think I did a pretty decent job at tying in some different cultural overtures from the various sources to make a pretty strong ritual that speaks of the yeti. It also opens avenues for me to explore their animism and gods, which is something I didn't have a solid foothold into yet, but I think I can use this as a launching point to explore them. Of course, I'll need to do a little more research into the cultural sources to see what I can blend into it, but I feel good about it!

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To deafened ears we ask, unseen / "Which is life and which the dream?"


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 14, 2013 1:15 am 
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Dragons
These massive serpents are possibly the most dangerous beasts upon the world. They are voracious and their size staggering, their movements responsible for quakes and terrible catastrophe, as if they are responsible for the very tectonic shifts. Their presence is so known for its effect that many cultures consider them to be elemental avatars of the molten heart of the world itself. Due to their massive bodies, they, somewhat surprisingly, spend most of their time in their subterranean lairs, massive tubes burrowing throughout solid rock. These subterranean lairs are ideal for their hibernation, the rock heated by the geothermal pulse below. The heat seems to rise while a dragon is present, leading to some question if they generate geothermal heat themselves or if they are attracted to it so fervently that they enhance the magma flows beneath.

The dragons are all a brilliant gold color, shot through with bands of copper red and bronze orange, a brilliant camouflage that allows them to fly unnoticed against the Aurora, the only time they are active in the skies. The heat given off by the aurora is hot enough that it pulls them from their network of tunnels to hunt freely above the ground. While the Aurora is not active, neither are the dragons, retreating to their massive lairs and slumbering against the warm stone. When needed, they can use their fierce breath to melt the stone itself, ingesting it and storing the molten concoction in their gullets, warming them enough to operate above the ground as well as amidst their expansive tunnels and caverns. It has the added effect, as well allowing them to expand their demesne. However, they are unable to contain the stone indefinitely and must eventually regurgitate, vomiting it out, creating curiously smooth patches in their lairs as it cools.

The Red Wizards
It is said that ages ago, the first red wizards stole the secrets of magic from the dragon's lair. Learning how to call heat from stone, to sway the molten pulse of the world and drag metal from its bones. They are a grizzled group, earning wealth and reputation nearly unheard of for the danger of their occupation. While the dragons fly the sky, the red wizards plunder their lairs for the precious metals that line their caverns. They travel the miles of lava tubes, pulling molten ore from the stone, working quickly lest the master return and catch them in the act. Often, they will map out the territory of one dragon and work it in shifts, even going so far as to ply their trade while the great wyrm slumbers, because of the importance of their work. Though pulling metal is their imperative, if they encounter a patch of consumed stone, they hunt for one of the greatest treasures in the world: fire opals, precious stones that form inside the dragon's gullets and can miraculously retain the heat of the ferocious beast.

The only way to collect the molten ore from the tunnels is to use dragon leather, the only material known that can withstand the heat. It takes a stout man to handle a satchel of liquid metal as it cools, particularly with the physical demands needed when scaling the caverns. They are exceedingly well paid, to match the danger of their work, and they are the only source of metal on the world, making their services extremely valuable. There are many who have the talent, but not the constitution needed for such extreme work though. These people usually use their gifts to help establish wells or melt ice, though there have been a few who have turned their focus towards catering to more luxurious ends, creating hot springs.




So, came up with all this at work, basically all quickly falling into place. I really like what I've got, but I feel like it could use a lot of expansion, mostly on the dragons. I know there's a lot about their feeding habits, mating, and general behavior that could use expansion, but I figured I'd get some data before trying to pad any of that out.

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To deafened ears we ask, unseen / "Which is life and which the dream?"


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 14, 2013 8:15 pm 
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Okay, I was finally able to carve out some time to check this out. Overall, I'm really liking this one. Here are some specific thoughts I had while reading through this:

Aurora Solaris - Are we going with the premise that this plane never had a sun? Maybe there are legends of a sun that once existed, but no longer does, and some cultures believe that the Auroras are the fragments of a shattered sun from the past.

Another way to address the issue is to tie it to the moons and swap out “solaris” for “Lunaris” or something like that.

A third option is possibly to name each color of aurora after a different deity in the plane’s primary belief system, you know, something like Lykr’s Light, Foryn’s Flame, that kind of thing.

Iconic green is frickin’ hard. Although I know you hate it, I think “Beast” probably has the claim to it. With this world, I would be tempted to go with Mammoth. Although hardly “iconic,” I think they can take the place of the high-end green creatures. You could probably borrow from the Naya God-Beasts if you wanted to, or shift Giants into green like you did in Elysium. Conversely, Green could be intentionally “missing” a large, iconic race, which might say something about the world.

For humans, I’m picturing a lot of fur coverings (which means we need furry wildlife of some kind around), but not primitive human or pre-human. Hey, the fur thing made me think of this: Maybe green’s heavies can be big cats, similar to things like sabertooths.

I’m really digging the Yeti here. The involvement of arranged marriages with them is an interesting choice, but not necessarily a poor one. I’m just not sure how I feel about it. The rest I’m totally with, however.

I really like the vampire origin story, and I LOVE the black-aligned civil war it sets up between vampires and demons, two of MTG’s most iconic races. Awesome. My only thing is that I think eventually, that first vampire, and maybe the demon, need a name.

Dragons are pretty cool, and I imagine they must cause some serious problems during that yearly, extended aurora. The Red Wizards, though, I’m not as sure about. You said in your original opening that only white mages uses anything resembling heat, but then you say the Red Wizards can call heat from the stone. One of those two should probably be revised.

Overall, I’m liking this world thus far. I’m picturing some vast, snow-blown wastes that are uninhabited (or mostly so) by the “civilized” races, but rife with wild animal life, adapted to the conditions, which I think provides a lot of possibilities. Good work so far.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 15, 2013 12:46 am 
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Aurora Solaris - Are we going with the premise that this plane never had a sun? Maybe there are legends of a sun that once existed, but no longer does, and some cultures believe that the Auroras are the fragments of a shattered sun from the past.

Another way to address the issue is to tie it to the moons and swap out “solaris” for “Lunaris” or something like that.

A third option is possibly to name each color of aurora after a different deity in the plane’s primary belief system, you know, something like Lykr’s Light, Foryn’s Flame, that kind of thing.

Nah, I'm sticking with the Aurora being the only thing that ever was. As it is, Aurora means DAWN to begin with, so naming it Solaris as well doesn't really have any impact on the misnomer of it all.
As I mentioned before, Solar isn't a generalized term. It's derived from the proper appellation of our particular star, in the same way "lunar" is derived from Luna, the proper appellation of our moon. Aside from that, naming it Lunaris wouldn't actually play well with the concepts of heat or warmth.
I've been waffling a bit on the ideas behind gods, and decided to sideline it mostly. If it comes up, that's fine, but so far, it seems like the Yeti are the only ones that actually worship gods. The white aligned worship angels and the Aurora itself in a sort of worldsoul way, while the blue and green don't seem to worship at all so far. For different reasons though.

Quote:
Iconic green is frickin’ hard. Although I know you hate it, I think “Beast” probably has the claim to it. With this world, I would be tempted to go with Mammoth. Although hardly “iconic,” I think they can take the place of the high-end green creatures. You could probably borrow from the Naya God-Beasts if you wanted to, or shift Giants into green like you did in Elysium. Conversely, Green could be intentionally “missing” a large, iconic race, which might say something about the world.

I really do hate beast. It doesn't actually mean anything, which is the largest problem. Mammoth are totally in already, but the problem is they function at midrange rather than icon levels. I dunno, at some point I'm going to tear through the large range green creatures and see what shows up. I was originally thinking of wurms, but now that dragons have come together, I am very very reluctant to use them.

Quote:
For humans, I’m picturing a lot of fur coverings (which means we need furry wildlife of some kind around), but not primitive human or pre-human. Hey, the fur thing made me think of this: Maybe green’s heavies can be big cats, similar to things like sabertooths.

That would be Felidars and other like such. Humans primarily have leather, fur, and wool clothing.

Quote:
I’m really digging the Yeti here. The involvement of arranged marriages with them is an interesting choice, but not necessarily a poor one. I’m just not sure how I feel about it. The rest I’m totally with, however.

Mostly I wanted to try to find some resonant way to tie into the cultures I'm trying to invoke. I don't think it detracts from the Yeti, though I do think it is a strange thing for red to be involved in, but there in, I feel like there has to be some real diversity and not a slavish adherence to established mores. I really want to see what I can bend without breaking the pie, because cultures won't fit so neatly along those lines and qualities. Not if they're going to feel realistic at least.

Quote:
I really like the vampire origin story, and I LOVE the black-aligned civil war it sets up between vampires and demons, two of MTG’s most iconic races. Awesome. My only thing is that I think eventually, that first vampire, and maybe the demon, need a name.
I'll be honest, I'm leaning towards demons just not having names. These demons aren't like other planes, they're more like sharks. They don't even like each other any more than two predators would if they were in the same territory. The first vampire probably could use a name, but it'd have to be a break between the old life and the new, because whatever his former life had been was gone.

Quote:
Dragons are pretty cool, and I imagine they must cause some serious problems during that yearly, extended aurora. The Red Wizards, though, I’m not as sure about. You said in your original opening that only white mages uses anything resembling heat, but then you say the Red Wizards can call heat from the stone. One of those two should probably be revised.

Yeah, the more I worked on dragons, the more I felt it right to pull in the geothermancy. There were three major reasons for it, one which was that it solved the issue of how mining works in the world. Aside from that, it also helps to create a clear separation of the shamanic red cultures and humanity, which don't follow with the natural world and emotion aspect. The last is that I wanted to defy what to expect from wizards in this world. I do want to be clear that it isn't pyromancy though, but more along the lines of lavamancy and ferromancy all rolled into one.

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Yet on the morn we wake to find / that mem'ry left so far behind.
To deafened ears we ask, unseen / "Which is life and which the dream?"


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 15, 2013 1:04 am 
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If all else fails when it comes to your iconic green race, you can fall back on the wurms vs dragons thing. I'd read a blurb on Phrexia that wurms were once dragons. There's also green's survival of the fittest mindset, which would let you have one of the midrange races emerge as the top dog before being dragged down by another of the midrangers. Beasts have become pretty iconic, though, thanks to Thragtusk. If they're still a bit small for their role, there's also Hydras.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 15, 2013 1:18 am 
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If all else fails when it comes to your iconic green race, you can fall back on the wurms vs dragons thing. I'd read a blurb on Phrexia that wurms were once dragons. There's also green's survival of the fittest mindset, which would let you have one of the midrange races emerge as the top dog before being dragged down by another of the midrangers. Beasts have become pretty iconic, though, thanks to Thragtusk. If they're still a bit small for their role, there's also Hydras.

Truthfully, I hate hydras even more because their mechanics are so complicated to force intuition. That and their insistence on trying to force them into iconic status.
Beasts though, just don't mean anything. Look at all these, what do they have in common? Virtually nothing. And that's just in green. When it comes down to it, Beast is too much a catch all to work as any icon because there isn't anything iconic about a Beast to begin with. There's no singular vision of what it is.

I... might try to bend Kirin around to see if I can make them really fit, but there's a lot of nebulous area in dealing with them. I feel like Kirin, at their heart probably are more green than any of their colors as part of the cycle.

The elves guide should be put together soon, though I'm open to any suggestions in what to do with the details already out there.
In other news, I've been trying to work out what to use for midrange blue and what do people think about using Viscerid? Barely intelligence viscerid with no culture and hardly a language.

Oh, and I totally forgot to say earlier, I'm really amused by the fact the dragons have a sort of pseudo reverse vampire thing.

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To deafened ears we ask, unseen / "Which is life and which the dream?"


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 16, 2013 6:58 am 
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Aurora Storms
While the life giving breath of the Aurora is vital to life, there is a darker side to the beautiful phenomena. As the ribbons of brilliance curl across the sky, it gives off tremendous heat. That blessed heat warms the soul and body of the world, but when the raging blizzards crash against the heat, it causes something far worse than the driving snows. These are called the Aurora storms.
The clash of heat and cold is explosive, creating massive clouds of frigid rain, lances of lightning slashing across the ice fields, and often times hot whipping winds that stir to life massive tornadoes. When the Aurora burns the sky, these storms are powerful enough to fell even the dragons in the sky.
Though terribly dangerous, they are surprisingly rare and barely more treacherous than the extreme blizzards that spawn them in the first place.

Incoming at some point today: The Elves and the Story of the Faerie Queen.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 16, 2013 7:50 am 
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"While the life giving breath of the Aurora is vital to life..." sounds a bit redundant. I would cut the last "to life". Other than that it's well written, and the science is not too far off.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 16, 2013 2:26 pm 
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Aaarrrgh wrote:
"While the life giving breath of the Aurora is vital to life..." sounds a bit redundant. I would cut the last "to life". Other than that it's well written, and the science is not too far off.

I wrote it at nearly 7 AM so... I wasn't exactly all there at the time.
Still, good to know that people are wtill reading the new stuf and catching that sort of thing for me.

Anyways, ELVES!

The Elves
The elves of the lowlands of the southern continent have the longest unbroken culture in the world. They owe this to a multitude of factors, their long life span for one, but also very likely due to their isolationist ways. Unfortunately, though it had served them in the past, the increasingly xenophobic ways were causing the stagnation of their culture and the competition given by the newest empire of man was something they were ill prepared for. The crowned ruler of the elves saw at play, the hand of their most fierce rivals, that of the Fae and realized that there was but one way to preserve what they knew lest it be wrenched from their arms. If they were not to lose everything they held dear, they could not fight the incursion of man. Instead of battling, they must embrace them as allies.

That simple judgement, radical at the time, is now seen as one of the brightest moments of the Elvish kingdom. Instead of fighting a stalemate in their own lands, they have risen to new heights of wealth and influence. One of the most valuable items to have come from their alliance is the acquisition of steel, an invaluable item that had given the humans an edge in what few battles in which they crossed swords. While the trade of man is ruled by metal, the trade of the elves could be said to be ruled by libation. While the elves have a diverse number of items they trade, none come close to the riches they get from the sell of their mead, cocoa, and coffee. The only things that come close are the linen they weave and the steel weapons they forge. Due to the unique resin they use to quench their blades in, it has superior ductility than that of metals forged in the lands of man.

Elvish culture is based around maintaining a harmony with nature, but not to the detriment of their existence. While life should not be taken lightly, it is hardly prohibited, for does the wolf not hunt? It is in nature to take life, but it should always have meaning and never done cruelly. In many ways, they hold this simple standard to every aspect of their life. Do nothing lightly for it cannot easily be undone. They do not fell trees for space, but for lumber, building their quarters and cities in concert with nature. The only concession they seem to make is to tame several animals, such as elks to serve as their mounts, but despite the servile nature of the animals, they do not constrain their movements, trusting their loyalty to remain true.

Elfin magic is totemic by nature. It is grounded in symbolism and reality, anchored to nature and the reality of the world. The opposing nature of the illusion magic the Fae use has long been a source of hostility between the two. The elves use physical objects to weave their spells, crafting the complicated knotwork or effigy of a spell into the world so that it will remain, even past the caster's life. The advantage to their method is that the spells once woven can be used with only a minimum of training, allowing many of their warriors to use magic without having to master the complex disciplines. Their primary spells consist of of charms and totem armor, but mostly totems that summon creatures, small effigies that manifest the creatures they emulate. Their totems are not just used in magic, but in other aspects of their life as well. The most notable of them, the exchange of totems during their wedding ceremony. Hand carved by the bride and groom, they are meant to represent each of the lovers, gifting the other with their essence. For some, it is the only spell they shall learn, but the most important by far.

Elfin Amber
Amber is the only gemstone sacred to the elves. Though ancient amber is revered, a small sect of their populace have discovered a way to manufacture amber and the skill has been passed down for generations. Amber is capable of holding spells more clearly than any other substance and can be made more all the more powerful by the inclusion of a drop of blood. This is called blood amber, and the blood creates a strong tie to the person or beast from which the blood came from. The first, and most famous, blood amber stone sits atop the Stag's Crown, a circlet carved from the antlers and the symbol of the realm. The stone affixed to it was made with the blood of the first king, and will prove the bearer is of the royal blood. There have been several times in history when a pretender to the crown has been denied under the geass of the crown's gaze.
Despite its storied history, it is actually fairly rare for amber to be used except in the most powerful of spells such as that on the crown. The most common usage of amber is as the betrothal charms carved for an elvish wedding.



So, there we have the elves. I feel like I still need to come up with more traditions and maybe some other things so that I can evoke the cultures I'm trying to build them off of. Solidifying some names will probably help, but I'm having trouble doing so without just wholesale copying names from myth.

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At twilight's end, the shadow's crossed / a new world birthed, the elder lost.
Yet on the morn we wake to find / that mem'ry left so far behind.
To deafened ears we ask, unseen / "Which is life and which the dream?"


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 16, 2013 2:46 pm 
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The most interesting thing to me about the Elves is their totemic magic. It's pretty interesting, given green's traditional dislike for artifacts, yet this sort of culture seems an excellent fit for green as a whole. I like that. Somehow I imagine that deep in the woods somewhere is a sort of Totem Glade that is an ancient holy place.

I'm looking forward to see what you come up with for the Fae. I wasn't overly amazed by their characterization in Lorwyn, and I think your take on them will be pretty interesting.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 16, 2013 3:03 pm 
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The most interesting thing to me about the Elves is their totemic magic. It's pretty interesting, given green's traditional dislike for artifacts, yet this sort of culture seems an excellent fit for green as a whole. I like that. Somehow I imagine that deep in the woods somewhere is a sort of Totem Glade that is an ancient holy place.

Thanks, though mostly their totems tends towards small charms on bracelets and the like. A totem glade would probably look more akin to a mausoleum of the kings.
Speaking of kings, I had originally concepted them as using the King appellation, but somewhere in there I had the impulse to use the title of Thane... but that doesn't really carry the same authority, which bums me out.
Anyways, I really wanted to explore a different aspect of green than is usually used, so I minimized the growth and nature push and instead really anchored it in the idea of Reality and community as their main focuses. It interacted really interestingly with their spiritualism, I have to say.
Quote:
I'm looking forward to see what you come up with for the Fae. I wasn't overly amazed by their characterization in Lorwyn, and I think your take on them will be pretty interesting.
They're definitely going to hit different notes than Lormoor, though admittedly I'm more worried about them feeling a color flex more than anybody else.

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At twilight's end, the shadow's crossed / a new world birthed, the elder lost.
Yet on the morn we wake to find / that mem'ry left so far behind.
To deafened ears we ask, unseen / "Which is life and which the dream?"


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