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PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2015 10:46 pm 
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Okay, as the title might suggest, I have a character I would really like feedback on whom is not meant to be an entry in the M:EM.

Her name is Freda Wandern (Freda = short for "Alfreda" = elf counselor, perhaps a variation might look better on text, but not sure, and her placeholder given name was "Alfhilda" = she who fights for the elves. Wandern = the German root found in the term "Wanderlust")

She is from Innistrad, and spent a portion of her childhood reading tales about the notion of the alleged existence of elves in Innistrad's history, instilling her with a related fascination.

In her later years (haven't decided pre or post-pubescence) she is afflicted with lycanthropy. At this time her sister (so far named Blenda Wandern) is a new member of the Church of Avacyn (inquisitor/cathar-in training or lower) before the Avacyn's return, and eventually she is responsible for organizing a mob to exterminate her sister.

I plan for this assault to occur in the daytime and trigger Freda's spark to ignite. Freda auto-planeswalks to Lorwyn during a time it is known as Shadowmoor, during the time of a full moon. (I am not fully aware of Shadowmoor's lunar cycle, but I do assume that there is a periodic fullness) On Shadowmoor she spends much time releasing all of her pent up rage and wild instinct hunting and howling, etc.

Freda is red and green-mana aligned and her magic specialty in human form (as, if I'm not mistaken, werewolves do not possess any access to magic) is culinamancy, the use of magic to cultivate, season/flavor, cook, and regulate nutritional benefits of food items.

Projected planar activities may include:
Being hunted in werewolf form by the Atarka clan, and using her culinamancy while mingling with the clan in human form.

Her lycanthropy being affected by exposure to one of Mirrodin's 'moons' and interacting with its residential elves.

Interacting with Zendikar's elves and looking for a sample of kolya fruit.

Seeking Pharika on Theros to do what she can about Freda's cursed transformation, perhaps not get cured, but gain further control of herself as a werewolf, and/or greater resistance to the transformation.

Attempt to become some sort of honorary member of the Selesnya, either playing the role of a one-woman wolf-rider, or be the wolf to a wolf-rider.

I will appreciate any healthy criticism, from the name, to the understanding of the concept of :r::g: culinamancy, to the dynamics of planar activities. I'd like to know if she has enough substance to put forth the extra effort needed to at least conceive likeable Uncharted Realms style articles featuring the character. Thank you very much.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2015 1:11 am 
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There aren't any elves in Zendikar. I don't think it's been stated as such, but they were never mentioned once in Innistrad block.
I suspect werewolves can use magic as long as they retain the necessary level of intelligence. Depending on what she does I suppose dexterity could be an issue.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2015 9:46 am 
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TPmanW wrote:
There aren't any elves in Zendikar. I don't think it's been stated as such, but they were never mentioned once in Innistrad block.
I suspect werewolves can use magic as long as they retain the necessary level of intelligence. Depending on what she does I suppose dexterity could be an issue.
Nissa being an elf from Zendikar might indicate that Zendikar is a plane known to have native elves. As for Innistrad, I was going on the claim from an interview/exposé (pretty sure an older Creative team member) that to explain the abscence of elves on Innistrad (suppose it was the first time elves were noticeably abscent from a plane, subsequent occurrences would be just explained with the understandable "they just aren't native to every plane") explaining that elves once existed on Innistrad in the past, but supposedly went extinct, presumably from being more satisfying prey to the evils of Innistrad.

I suppose dexterity would be an issue, but that does beg the question if, for example, Gideon were to become a werewolf, if he'd be :w::g: / :w::r: / :w::r::g: / :r: / :g: / :r::g: and if he'd be capable of using :w: to cast his indestructibility magic on himself.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2015 2:17 pm 
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Werewolves can use magic, the Mondronen in particular being sangromancers.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2015 3:39 pm 
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Werewolves can use magic, the Mondronen in particular being sangromancers.
Is said magic cast normally? Do said spells have to be well known by the untransformed werewolf?

Does any of her time on other planes sound much too far fetched? Only things that I might be concerned by is the use of Mirrodin's suns AKA moons (err, one of them) and exactly what Selesnya's policies may be, but I believe they're remotely plausonle enough to be interesting if executed well.

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:b::g: Aran: Drow Archer Wizard :planeswalker: :g::w: Zilin Kast: Half-Elf Druid :planeswalker: :u::b: Valin Drom: Egomage :planeswalker: :r: Raff: Crimson Mage :planeswalker: :r::g: Chrysanos: Leonin Wildmage :planeswalker: :w::b: Whulsi: Loxodon Healer :planeswalker:


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2015 4:08 pm 
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So...she's a human/werewolf who is obsessed with Elf lore and can cook magically? I fail to see the connection in most of those things.

That being said, I do think there are aspects of the character that can work. I would personally suggest dropping the Elf thing completely, because I honestly fail to see how that has anything to do with anything, particularly coming from Innistrad where, to the best of our knowledge, there have never been elves.

Now, I will say this. I don't pretend to know what "culinomancy" is or how it would work, but I imagine it's a sort of "peaceful" magical pursuit, one that has little to no violent or war-related applications, which to me is the diamond in the rough of this character. I actually REALLY like the concept of a peaceful character with peaceful magic, who is at the same time cursed as a werewolf. It creates a very nice dynamic between the desire to do something pleasing and artistic (being a masterful, magical chef) and having to commit brutal violence in werewolf form. That, I think, has potential to be a winning character. (Or a potentially disturbing one, if she eventually starts using the "meat" she collects as a werewolf in her stews.)

As you noted, Mirrodin is a major problem for a few different reasons. First of all, the moons are not really moons, but rather floating balls of concentrated mana. While we have no official word (to the best of my knowledge) on precisely how lycanthropy works in Dominia, I personally doubt that the Mirrodin suns would have any effect on a werewolf in the same way a natural moon would. The other major problem is that Mirrodin is New Phyrexia these days, and I would suggest that sending your character there would provide a compleately different set of problems.

The Selesnya thing, with the "one-woman wolf rider," I actually kind of like. I have literally no idea what the Selesnya would think of a werewolf, but I like the connection.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2015 6:17 pm 
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Considering werewolves are literally bloodthirsty monsters, I'm pretty sure the Selesnyans would have the same feelings about it as they would the absolutely most brutal and savage gruul.

And yeah, no extent of end to how inappropriate this character is for this section of the forum. I don't mean to sound mean or anything, but what you want to do with the characters is integrally different than how we're going to assess them. We're looking at how they fit and what stories can be told, but a lot of your concepts are sort of founded on how you can bend things around to make things novel. Which means a lot of your concepts are also running contrary to themselves since you want to make things that are mostly just different for the sake of being different.

This character has three core concepts that you're trying to wedge together, and none of them flow from one to another. Culiomancy implies a certain fascination with cooking, which would be interesting enough to carry a character itself. Lycanthropy has nothing to do with it and really really confuses the personality of the character since you want to make the character a beast half the time and... there doesn't appear to be any conflict about that with what she is. Then there's the preoccupation with elves which is... irrelevant to either other parts of the character.

One of the primary problems with your characters is that you take all these details and try to fit them together like a puzzle, but a character isn't a puzzle. It's a picture, and the elements to make it a good composition have to add up.

Most of the activities you want her to go through clash with each other. They are motivations that don't seem to belong to the same person and that's a big red flag. There has to be consistency and people can't balance such wildly different aspects of their life if they are presented as being as important to them as you present these.

If all that sounded harsh, it's a bit too bad, but softer criticism hasn't really seemed to work in the past.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2015 11:45 pm 
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Barinellos wrote:
Considering werewolves are literally bloodthirsty monsters, I'm pretty sure the Selesnyans would have the same feelings about it as they would the absolutely most brutal and savage gruul.

And yeah, no extent of end to how inappropriate this character is for this section of the forum. I don't mean to sound mean or anything, but what you want to do with the characters is integrally different than how we're going to assess them. We're looking at how they fit and what stories can be told, but a lot of your concepts are sort of founded on how you can bend things around to make things novel. Which means a lot of your concepts are also running contrary to themselves since you want to make things that are mostly just different for the sake of being different.

This character has three core concepts that you're trying to wedge together, and none of them flow from one to another. Culiomancy implies a certain fascination with cooking, which would be interesting enough to carry a character itself. Lycanthropy has nothing to do with it and really really confuses the personality of the character since you want to make the character a beast half the time and... there doesn't appear to be any conflict about that with what she is. Then there's the preoccupation with elves which is... irrelevant to either other parts of the character.

One of the primary problems with your characters is that you take all these details and try to fit them together like a puzzle, but a character isn't a puzzle. It's a picture, and the elements to make it a good composition have to add up.

Most of the activities you want her to go through clash with each other. They are motivations that don't seem to belong to the same person and that's a big red flag. There has to be consistency and people can't balance such wildly different aspects of their life if they are presented as being as important to them as you present these.

If all that sounded harsh, it's a bit too bad, but softer criticism hasn't really seemed to work in the past.
I don't really have anything to say about its placement on the forum, perhaps there is a better placement for the thread, if so please let me know so I don't make a similar mistake in the future.

I'm not sure what you mean about the flowing from one to another. I'm aware a lot of MtG characters of late are really rooted in some obvious thing about their mechanical and philosophical color-coding, with a few degrees of uniqueness (sort of-- like Chandra for example) I've given her 2 interests/passions with 2 sets of 'abilities' only 1 of which is offensive/defensive (well, haven't really thought too deep about summoning, but perhaps) 2 things that are a constant part of her life (minus planeswalking) and 1 that was a silly thing she pondered about as a child that later pops up later in life and only on planes they are commonly found on (but in no way Sarkhan Troll level)
while I can see a disconnect between these things, but for somewhat believable characters, it's natural, especially for characters you might identify as "Red" characters. She has a practical everyday skill, 2 unusual traits that give her something to change who she is (lycanthropy = temporary ignorance to social norms and release of stress and anxiety, planeswalker spark = unbound from the "way things are" in one isolated area of existence, freedom to explore her curiosity and imagination and meet different people of different mindsets) and the interest in elves is just one thing for her to latch to to open her mind to how different other worlds are to her own before moving onto simpler things like "Ohh, different animals and plants mean different meal options, etc". I basically want her to have Blue's curiosity but not be Blue, just be "Wow! Cool! I wonder... never mind, it's so more fantastic if I don't poke and prod andON TO THE NEXT THING!

I'd forgotten to give any indication that the Selesnyan werewolf thing is planned to come after being able to at least quell the intensity of the influence her wolf form has on her own actions with the help of a boon of Pharika's (likely not from Pharika herself, only pointed in the right direction by her followers, considering Pharika hides stuff like that in all manner of creature) and for all I know, Gruul may be alluring to her inner wolf (apparently at least Innistrad's werewolves do feel a repressed wildness trying to get out even in human form) initially before she gains any semblance of control back, but ultimately I don't expect it to be a permanent fix.

The only relevance I see from her own PoV for her time on a given plane is
Innistrad: I was born here and up until recently I thought it was the whole world
Shadowmoor: Couldn't help it then I was a primal monster for a while.
Tarkir: Still new to this world-jumping thing, was hunted like I was some big animal--oh yeah. Then what?
Ravnica: Okay, this place is a LOT less like my home, but there's a couple of groups that like to riot, is that good?
Ravnica Continued: There's also what seems like a laid-back group with a lot of elves, I think they're cool too.
Theros: So, monsters I'm used to. More than one divine? That's new. Maybe this one can help me stop wolfing out.
Theros Continued: It wasn't easy, but I did what I was told I needed, maybe things won't be so bad now.

Mirrodin can go pretty much anywhere after Shadowmoor or Tarkir. It IS a toss up. Either she IS capable of transforming, and external mana from one of the so-called moons could still affect her transformation strangely, OR they can't be considered moons for the sake of lycanthropy and she is fur-and-fang-free. In addition, I would not intend her to arrive on Mirrodin at such a time that the Phyrexian-Mirran feud has reached a focal point.

For the elf thing specifically, https://youtu.be/vj46sLvXuGs between 0:28:31 - 0:29:40

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:b::g: Aran: Drow Archer Wizard :planeswalker: :g::w: Zilin Kast: Half-Elf Druid :planeswalker: :u::b: Valin Drom: Egomage :planeswalker: :r: Raff: Crimson Mage :planeswalker: :r::g: Chrysanos: Leonin Wildmage :planeswalker: :w::b: Whulsi: Loxodon Healer :planeswalker:


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2015 2:06 am 
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What's the general opinion on Mirrodin even having "moons"? To be honest, I'm unaware; is there even day and night? What do the concepts of day and night even mean on a world like Mirrodin?

I'm MOST at odds with her name. I don't want to take a crack at it and introduce it (an Uncharted Realms-esque article) as her current name (I suppose same goes for her sister) then come to decide against her name after the fact. Just as I would be bothered if Creative changed a character's name outright between appearances, names are not something you can shrug off after introducing characters. The Kytheon/Gideon thing is kind of sneaky, but first time it's happened to my knowledge, and was done semi-believably.

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:b::g: Aran: Drow Archer Wizard :planeswalker: :g::w: Zilin Kast: Half-Elf Druid :planeswalker: :u::b: Valin Drom: Egomage :planeswalker: :r: Raff: Crimson Mage :planeswalker: :r::g: Chrysanos: Leonin Wildmage :planeswalker: :w::b: Whulsi: Loxodon Healer :planeswalker:


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2015 2:12 am 
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They don't have day or night. They have cycles.
Moon and sun are pretty much interchangeable on Mirrodin, the important party is that the celestial bodies orbit the planetoid which is, itself stationary in space.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2015 2:18 am 
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So do the 5 'suns' just constantly emit light onto the surface of the planetoid Mirrans live on, like Planet Namek from Dragon Ball Z?

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:b::g: Aran: Drow Archer Wizard :planeswalker: :g::w: Zilin Kast: Half-Elf Druid :planeswalker: :u::b: Valin Drom: Egomage :planeswalker: :r: Raff: Crimson Mage :planeswalker: :r::g: Chrysanos: Leonin Wildmage :planeswalker: :w::b: Whulsi: Loxodon Healer :planeswalker:


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2015 2:24 am 
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There is pretty much always a light in the sky, though there is one Very rare occurrence when all five suns set at the same time on one side, but that is a story of a once a year thing than anything normal. The circuit the suns orbit in is irregular, so they do not retrace their path exactly each day.

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To deafened ears we ask, unseen / "Which is life and which the dream?"


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2015 2:38 am 
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Barinellos wrote:
There is pretty much always a light in the sky, though there is one Very rare occurrence when all five suns set at the same time on one side, but that is a story of a once a year thing than anything normal. The circuit the suns orbit in is irregular, so they do not retrace their path exactly each day.
So I suppose this is a headcanon thing; if a werewolf were to appear on Mirrodin, could the 'suns/moons' conceivably trigger a transformation to occur? If not, then an alternative altogether is that according to the Planeswalker's Guide to Innistrad points out that the moon is not the only cause of every given transformation. Werewolves can transform based on intense stress and other internal processes. The suns do appear to still have colored-mana related side-effects for certain individuals. If I'm not mistaken, there was at least one goblin character affected by the blue sun and thus was a relatively smarter goblin as a result. I'm not sure if that really says much about the concept, but is shy evidence supporting the idea.

I think Frida may be a preferred spelling, since it avoids the spelling that connects it to its male derivatives leading to the name "Fred". Her surname doesn't seem any more or less arbitrary as any canon planeswalker surname.

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:b::g: Aran: Drow Archer Wizard :planeswalker: :g::w: Zilin Kast: Half-Elf Druid :planeswalker: :u::b: Valin Drom: Egomage :planeswalker: :r: Raff: Crimson Mage :planeswalker: :r::g: Chrysanos: Leonin Wildmage :planeswalker: :w::b: Whulsi: Loxodon Healer :planeswalker:


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2015 3:04 am 
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Slobad's intelligence isn't really a causal effect. He was born under the blue sun, but that does not mean it was responsible for any aspect of his character. It meant he was abandoned and had to be clever to survive.
What's more, to be honest, we can't even really draw a correlation between the reason the moon effects a werewolf. There is a good chance it is something about Innistrad's silver moon specifically that is tied to the wolf cycles, something Tamiyo's research might point to.
There is absolutely no telling what might happen on other worlds or what the nature of the celestial body has to be. Dominaria has two satellites, one artificial. What might the null moon influence?

Regardless, Mirrodin's satellites probably shouldn't have any power over the transformation.

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To deafened ears we ask, unseen / "Which is life and which the dream?"


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2015 10:06 am 
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Barinellos wrote:
Slobad's intelligence isn't really a causal effect. He was born under the blue sun, but that does not mean it was responsible for any aspect of his character. It meant he was abandoned and had to be clever to survive.
What's more, to be honest, we can't even really draw a correlation between the reason the moon effects a werewolf. There is a good chance it is something about Innistrad's silver moon specifically that is tied to the wolf cycles, something Tamiyo's research might point to.
There is absolutely no telling what might happen on other worlds or what the nature of the celestial body has to be. Dominaria has two satellites, one artificial. What might the null moon influence?

Regardless, Mirrodin's satellites probably shouldn't have any power over the transformation.
Oh. That's... interesting to say the least, due to it still fitting with color philosophy, had he been born under the black sun I'd have to wonder if he would have had to be *ruthless* to survive. Well, I can agree we know little about that, but it's something so very integrated into werewolf lore (and this character) that to assume anything else at this moment spells doom for the character's story. However, I have to assume that if I am to forego indicating that Innistrad's moon isn't solely responsible, then it should at the least be implemented that off-Innistrad the "Hunter's Moon" concept would be absent for her anywhere else.

For theme's sake if I want to play on the thematic reference to Mirrodin's satellites as moons, I have to write her time on Mirrodin in such a way that any transformation she experiences on Mirrodin is not a cause of any of the suns, but in fact an emotionally-induced transformation, and use one of the moon's ambient mana as a catalyst for a change OTHER than her wolf transformation. The mental image I want to paint on Mirrodin is her in werewolf form beneath one of Mirrodin's suns as IF they were connected, but in fact the moon's mana is causing her to have a different quality to her form at this time.

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:b::g: Aran: Drow Archer Wizard :planeswalker: :g::w: Zilin Kast: Half-Elf Druid :planeswalker: :u::b: Valin Drom: Egomage :planeswalker: :r: Raff: Crimson Mage :planeswalker: :r::g: Chrysanos: Leonin Wildmage :planeswalker: :w::b: Whulsi: Loxodon Healer :planeswalker:


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