It is currently Wed Dec 04, 2024 9:59 pm

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 16 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: Sat Aug 22, 2015 2:42 am 
Offline
Member

Joined: Sep 22, 2013
Posts: 12284
Okay, first off, let me get this out right now:
I know this premise isn't terribly original. This is really serving more as an introductory piece than anything that I'm seriously flexing my creative muscles with. There were a fair number of details I wanted to seed into the aether, and the best vehicle for it was not something that stressed me out. I was looking for a short piece that spoke more about character than original concept.

It was important for me to get this out, so that I could move onto pieces that were something that I could legitimately test my limits with later, but that's not what the point of this is. This is meant to be a very human piece, on a small scale, to show you the kind of person Nodeshi Saigo is and the specific details he carries with him. To that end... it seemed the most prudent to do something familiar.

You all know I am capable of things far more outlandish and original than this, but this served my needs right now, and that's all I asked of it.

Trigger Warnings


The Weight of the Sword


Post Script

_________________
At twilight's end, the shadow's crossed / a new world birthed, the elder lost.
Yet on the morn we wake to find / that mem'ry left so far behind.
To deafened ears we ask, unseen / "Which is life and which the dream?"


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Aug 22, 2015 5:13 am 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Jun 21, 2014
Posts: 8338
Location: Singapore
I like the story very much. The craftmanship is excellent, and you've done a good job of capturing the period drama and the feeling of searching for Zen in a conflicted world. It strikes close to my heart in a way that more European and Westernized stories don't.

If I had one suggestion, it would be to write out the fight scene. As you mentioned, the story feels a little anticlimactic without it. On one hand, it adds to the mood of the piece and shows us quite rightly that this character isn't defined by fighting. But on the other hand, the fight scene would lend some visceral drama to the piece, and add a sense of suspense and closure. People only show their true colors in desperate times. I feel like we would get a new understanding of Saigo from the way he fights and the way he interacts with his opponents.

_________________
Image
The format of YMtC and the Expanded Multiverse.
YMtC: My Deck of Many Things | NGA Masters | 2 | 3 | Roses of Paliano | Duel Decks: War of the Wheel | Jakkard: Wild Cards | From Maral's Vault | Taramir: The Dark Tide
Solphos: Solphos | Fool's Gold | Planeswalker's Guide | The Guiding Light | The Weight of a Soul
Game design: Pokémon Tales | Fleets of Ossia: War Machines | Hunter Killer | Red Jackie's Run


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Aug 22, 2015 7:19 am 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Sep 23, 2013
Posts: 4975
Preferred Pronoun Set: He/him
I actually like that the fight is omitted. After all, the story is not about the violence. I also appreciate what it says about Saigo's skill that this guy didn't even put up enough resistance to be mentioned. I don't feel that the story is anticlimactic, because the way I read it, the climax is when she hands over the ring. The story is about her struggle, not her husband's, so it makes sense that his death takes the backseat to her reaction to it.

_________________
Come and play 3 Card Magic! The Most Minimalistic Magic Format! (TM)

my ego sig


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Aug 22, 2015 6:03 pm 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Sep 23, 2013
Posts: 2912
Location: Arizona, USA
One thing I wonder is if the fight would be as anticlimactic, or maybe moreso, than skipping the fight altogether. I can imagine a quick draw to a sudden finish. At least that is how I imagine it, you "equipping" him with Ethereal Armor and all.

If you want a fight scene still, go for it. But sometimes you don't need every detail.

_________________
RPG Personality
D&D Characters


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Aug 22, 2015 9:55 pm 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Nov 04, 2013
Posts: 5157
Just poking my head in to say that I'm super excited about this story, and I'm very much looking forward to reading it -- hopefully tomorrow, if all goes as planned! :)

_________________
"And remember, I'm pullin' for ya, 'cause we're all in this together." - Red Green


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Aug 23, 2015 2:21 am 
Offline
Member

Joined: Sep 22, 2013
Posts: 12284
I like the story very much. The craftmanship is excellent, and you've done a good job of capturing the period drama and the feeling of searching for Zen in a conflicted world. It strikes close to my heart in a way that more European and Westernized stories don't.
I'm sincerely happy to hear that. I've done a lot to make sure Saigo's frame of mind was properly representative and faithful to the cultures his inspiration was drawn from and it means a lot that you feel I've succeeded there.

Quote:
If I had one suggestion, it would be to write out the fight scene. As you mentioned, the story feels a little anticlimactic without it. On one hand, it adds to the mood of the piece and shows us quite rightly that this character isn't defined by fighting. But on the other hand, the fight scene would lend some visceral drama to the piece, and add a sense of suspense and closure. People only show their true colors in desperate times. I feel like we would get a new understanding of Saigo from the way he fights and the way he interacts with his opponents.
Aaarrrgh wrote:
I actually like that the fight is omitted. After all, the story is not about the violence. I also appreciate what it says about Saigo's skill that this guy didn't even put up enough resistance to be mentioned. I don't feel that the story is anticlimactic, because the way I read it, the climax is when she hands over the ring. The story is about her struggle, not her husband's, so it makes sense that his death takes the backseat to her reaction to it.

I want to say, as contradictory as it may seem, that you are both completely right. Which is where I ended up getting caught up in the conundrum in the first place. You both make excellent points and they are things I will weigh equally as more opinions come in on how I should proceed with things.

One thing I wonder is if the fight would be as anticlimactic, or maybe moreso, than skipping the fight altogether. I can imagine a quick draw to a sudden finish. At least that is how I imagine it, you "equipping" him with Ethereal Armor and all.

If you want a fight scene still, go for it. But sometimes you don't need every detail.
To some degree, that's a fair thing to think, but at the same, if there is one thing I have been consistently told is my strong suit, it's my action dynamics. I would make sure that things wouldn't feel anticlimactic with a fight, even if it were a short one. In a thing like this, the fight is as much psychological as physical. (And to THAT, I speak from experience.)

_________________
At twilight's end, the shadow's crossed / a new world birthed, the elder lost.
Yet on the morn we wake to find / that mem'ry left so far behind.
To deafened ears we ask, unseen / "Which is life and which the dream?"


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Aug 23, 2015 4:30 pm 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Sep 22, 2013
Posts: 11083
I like this story. Saigo has that sort of quiet wisdom you would expect from the trope, but I think you give him enough of a personality (like his dislike of soldiers) that he doesn't fall too much into the stereotype. And I am fond of the whole haiku/mana bond thing.

One thing I'll note (and this is a pet peeve of mine) but I really hate "anyways". "Anyway" is the standard usage, with "anyways" being a sort of informal dialect most commonly associated with the American Midwest and South. Personally, I never use "anyways," although I don't fault people for using it in most circumstances, especially casual speech. But when Saigo uses it, coming from very obvious Japanese influences and thus nowhere near the American Midwest or South, it strikes me as really out of character.

Now, as for the omitted fight scene. As I was reading, I felt it was odd to omit it. However, as I progressed through the second half of the story, I came around to the opinion that omitting it was the right call. The thing is, from both the meta-knowledge we come into the story with, and from the information provided to us in the story, the fight scene is already a foregone conclusion. We know Saigo wins. With the advantages he has, the disadvantages Reid has, and the nature of these sorts of stories, it was highly unlikely that there would be any other outcome. Saigo was going to win, and probably pretty easily. So, unless something about the fight was going to inform us more about the character, I say keep it dropped.

Now, having said that, you can always write the scene and show it to us, to see what we think. After all, good fight scenes are quite simply fun, and there is some value to that, as well.

Thanks for posting! Good to see you getting some stuff out again!


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2015 2:28 am 
Offline
Member

Joined: Sep 22, 2013
Posts: 12284
I like this story. Saigo has that sort of quiet wisdom you would expect from the trope, but I think you give him enough of a personality (like his dislike of soldiers) that he doesn't fall too much into the stereotype. And I am fond of the whole haiku/mana bond thing.

To be honest, it's kind of amusing to work with an anti-authoritarian samurai, but it's tricky given the nature of Bushido and everything.

Regardless, I'm glad you liked it. And seriously, thanks for the mana bond/haiku compliment. That's like... one of my favorite parts to this character and it's not been mentioned much. I always try to do something different with how my characters interact with mana bonds, and I'm pretty proud of this one. It felt organic.

Though, full discretion time, the comparison to green lantern had been made before, and well after I'd settle on him using poetry to get mana, it occurred to me that GL uses poetry to... power up his ring. It was a bit of a frustrating moment for me.

Quote:
One thing I'll note (and this is a pet peeve of mine) but I really hate "anyways". "Anyway" is the standard usage, with "anyways" being a sort of informal dialect most commonly associated with the American Midwest and South. Personally, I never use "anyways," although I don't fault people for using it in most circumstances, especially casual speech. But when Saigo uses it, coming from very obvious Japanese influences and thus nowhere near the American Midwest or South, it strikes me as really out of character.
Well... sorry.
Not to make light, but I suppose he just picked it up from hanging around Jakkard too long.

Quote:
So, unless something about the fight was going to inform us more about the character, I say keep it dropped.
Well, chinkeyong hit on the idea that you can tell a lot about a person by the way they treat their opponent, but part of the reason I didn't was that I was having a hard time coming up with what auras to actually employ other than the ethereal armor.

Quote:
Now, having said that, you can always write the scene and show it to us, to see what we think. After all, good fight scenes are quite simply fun, and there is some value to that, as well.
I might still do that, but we'll just have to see.

_________________
At twilight's end, the shadow's crossed / a new world birthed, the elder lost.
Yet on the morn we wake to find / that mem'ry left so far behind.
To deafened ears we ask, unseen / "Which is life and which the dream?"


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2015 9:52 pm 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Nov 04, 2013
Posts: 5157
I finally had the chance to read this story, and I enjoyed it very much! Thanks for sharing, Barinellos!

Starting with the question that you yourself posed, I'm of the opinion that leaving the fight off-camera is just fine, here. I always think that, when violence is realistic, there's a certain banality to it -- and, for this story to work, the I think that the violence has to have some element of realism to it. So, I think we all know how this fight plays out without having to see it: Saigo's going to kill a man, and that's the end of the story. *How* he does it is, at the end of the day, not actually that important for the story. So, rather than dwelling on the details -- or, worse, trying to stylize something that doesn't need to be stylized -- I think it's fine to just show the chain of events that lead up to the fight, and then the inevitable result. I think the off-screen violence has as much impact as the on-screen violence would.

One more digression, if I may. This little aside:

Barinellos wrote:
Saigo paced the sodden ground until he found a space large enough for two men to try to kill each other without any obstacles. This was hardly his first time doing something like this, but it all just seemed so... inauspicious. A man was about to die and it was more important to him that neither of them trip on some loose rock.

(A) is great and (B) immediately made me think of Justified, and Danny Crowe falling into the hole during his (anti)-climatic showdown with Raylan: "****, Danny, I would have said something. Swear to God I didn't see it either."

Getting back to the story, I find myself intrigued by Saigo's distaste for soldiers. I'm guessing that this makes sense from the perspective of the plane where he comes from, where he makes a distinction between samurai (who live by a code) and soldiers (who do not). But, in a more general sense, Saigo's description of a soldier as someone who is "too objective oriented, too concerned with ruthless obedience and the task at hand," is a description of a bad soldier. Good soldiers, by definition, aren't ruthlessly obedient, because part of being a good soldier is respecting the rules of engagement, and refusing to obey an unlawful order. So I find myself very interested in how Saigo would react if he ever encountered a good soldier, at least by my definition of the term.

To me, the most interesting glimpse of Saigo comes from the fact that he buries the body. Partly, I'm sure, to spare Lyra from having to do it, as he says. But also, I'm going to guess, because it's a part of his code, in one form or another, to show respect to the dead, whoever they might be. (Correct me if I'm wrong, obviously. But that just struck me as likely.)

Anyway, I'm a fan of this piece. Thanks again for sharing, Barinellos!


One thing I'll note (and this is a pet peeve of mine) but I really hate "anyways". "Anyway" is the standard usage, with "anyways" being a sort of informal dialect most commonly associated with the American Midwest and South.

*raises his hand*

Midwestern -- sorry! :D

_________________
"And remember, I'm pullin' for ya, 'cause we're all in this together." - Red Green


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2015 10:44 pm 
Offline
Member

Joined: Sep 22, 2013
Posts: 12284
I finally had the chance to read this story, and I enjoyed it very much! Thanks for sharing, Barinellos!
And thank you for reading!

Quote:
(A) is great and (B) immediately made me think of Justified, and Danny Crowe falling into the hole during his (anti)-climatic showdown with Raylan: "****, Danny, I would have said something. Swear to God I didn't see it either."
I imagine there might be a story in how he got to be so wary about the field before hand. As the proverb goes "He who controls the land can conquer heaven".

Quote:
Getting back to the story, I find myself intrigued by Saigo's distaste for soldiers. I'm guessing that this makes sense from the perspective of the plane where he comes from, where he makes a distinction between samurai (who live by a code) and soldiers (who do not). But, in a more general sense, Saigo's description of a soldier as someone who is "too objective oriented, too concerned with ruthless obedience and the task at hand," is a description of a bad soldier. Good soldiers, by definition, aren't ruthlessly obedient, because part of being a good soldier is respecting the rules of engagement, and refusing to obey an unlawful order. So I find myself very interested in how Saigo would react if he ever encountered a good soldier, at least by my definition of the term.
This, I feel is a situation where modern morality skews our perceptions. Given that most of the worlds we work in are roughly medieval, that has a pretty big impact on conduct considered unbecoming.

I'm not denying that Saigo is definitely describing a bad soldier, but considering that a fair number of soldiers in these approximate periods are probably press ganged into service, it does allow rather a lot of leeway in what kind of person makes it to the battlefield.

Quote:
To me, the most interesting glimpse of Saigo comes from the fact that he buries the body. Partly, I'm sure, to spare Lyra from having to do it, as he says. But also, I'm going to guess, because it's a part of his code, in one form or another, to show respect to the dead, whoever they might be. (Correct me if I'm wrong, obviously. But that just struck me as likely.)
Partly it really was to spare Lyra from it. She'd been through enough, but even if she weren't a factor in it, he still would have buried Reid. Not so much for a general respect of the dead, but more to show respect to your opponent. Gets back into that adage of "live by the sword" and all.

_________________
At twilight's end, the shadow's crossed / a new world birthed, the elder lost.
Yet on the morn we wake to find / that mem'ry left so far behind.
To deafened ears we ask, unseen / "Which is life and which the dream?"


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2015 11:09 pm 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Nov 04, 2013
Posts: 5157
Barinellos wrote:
This, I feel is a situation where modern morality skews our perceptions. Given that most of the worlds we work in are roughly medieval, that has a pretty big impact on conduct considered unbecoming.

I'm not denying that Saigo is definitely describing a bad soldier, but considering that a fair number of soldiers in these approximate periods are probably press ganged into service, it does allow rather a lot of leeway in what kind of person makes it to the battlefield.

Oh, totally. Given where he has come from, and where he has been, it makes sense. I just find myself interested in what he would make of someone else who also lives by a code of conduct, but who doesn't come from a walk of life that he might otherwise expect that from. I think it would be an interesting encounter.

_________________
"And remember, I'm pullin' for ya, 'cause we're all in this together." - Red Green


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2015 11:49 pm 
Offline
Member

Joined: Sep 22, 2013
Posts: 12284
Oh, totally. Given where he has come from, and where he has been, it makes sense. I just find myself interested in what he would make of someone else who also lives by a code of conduct, but who doesn't come from a walk of life that he might otherwise expect that from. I think it would be an interesting encounter.

Well, I think that'd really depend on the person in general. After all, Saigo's own code is a bit... severe, all things considered. So I really can't say without knowing more about the circumstances, but in general I think Saigo isn't so much a loner that he'd chase people off.

I do get the impression that he likes solitude though. I don't know if that's an artefact of his grief over what's happened in his life or just his drive to be strong though.

Honestly, I think it would be pretty damned amusing to put him up next to a gentleman thief or something.

_________________
At twilight's end, the shadow's crossed / a new world birthed, the elder lost.
Yet on the morn we wake to find / that mem'ry left so far behind.
To deafened ears we ask, unseen / "Which is life and which the dream?"


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2015 6:42 am 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Jun 21, 2014
Posts: 8338
Location: Singapore
So when do we see Alessa fall in love with Saigo?

Or even better, the other way round?

_________________
Image
The format of YMtC and the Expanded Multiverse.
YMtC: My Deck of Many Things | NGA Masters | 2 | 3 | Roses of Paliano | Duel Decks: War of the Wheel | Jakkard: Wild Cards | From Maral's Vault | Taramir: The Dark Tide
Solphos: Solphos | Fool's Gold | Planeswalker's Guide | The Guiding Light | The Weight of a Soul
Game design: Pokémon Tales | Fleets of Ossia: War Machines | Hunter Killer | Red Jackie's Run


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2015 11:14 am 
Offline
Member

Joined: Sep 22, 2013
Posts: 4859
Identity: genderqueer
Preferred Pronoun Set: zie/zin/zir/zirs/zinself
I liked this a lot. For what it's worth, I'm in the no fight scene camp, mainly because to me the story came off very much as a character piece. The fight scene was almost irrelevant--we could tell how it was going to end. This was much more a piece about Saigo himself.

And I have to confess, I couldn't help but fiddle at some of the details there that give some nuance to his character as not sort of unambiguously motivated by nobility... like the contempt for soldiers, for example, that was an interesting moment. There's just little touches like that that telegraph some of Saigo's arrogance, I would say. That's the part of him that I find interesting, particularly in comparison to some of our other characters (the sometimes sort of bewildered seeming Jinsen struggling with Kimberley, or the tormented dark knight Lucas, always caught between his quest and his dark magic and his desire to do good...)

I'll be eager to see what Saigo does next.


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2015 11:25 am 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Oct 28, 2013
Posts: 3141
If there would have been a fight scene, I could see it being from Reid's perspective.
Mostly with Saigo easily overpowering him, but less a real fight than like training, scolding him at every turn.
Reid eventually start showing his uglier, violent side, finally charging in recklessly, ending with Saigo finishing him with one swift strike,
Echoing his earlier words, "And that, is why I hate soldiers."

_________________
Characters:
Hexion


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2015 4:06 am 
Offline
Member

Joined: Sep 22, 2013
Posts: 12284
And I have to confess, I couldn't help but fiddle at some of the details there that give some nuance to his character as not sort of unambiguously motivated by nobility... like the contempt for soldiers, for example, that was an interesting moment. There's just little touches like that that telegraph some of Saigo's arrogance, I would say. That's the part of him that I find interesting, particularly in comparison to some of our other characters (the sometimes sort of bewildered seeming Jinsen struggling with Kimberley, or the tormented dark knight Lucas, always caught between his quest and his dark magic and his desire to do good...)
Yeah, that was one thing that I very specifically hoped would come through. Saigo, for all his strict sense of honor, is not a white knight. He's definitely got a streak of arrogance in him, and he's not necessarily going to be someone who does good things for their own sake. At the end, after all, for all the comfort he shows to Lyra... he still is pretty up front about getting paid. Despite his absolute refusal to slay an unarmed man, he makes no qualms about threatening to maim the same person, and when you get right down to it, and I'm not sure if it came through, but Saigo isn't losing sleep over murdering someone. He's not one borne down with regret over spilled blood. It's only when it isn't spilled RIGHT that he gets touchy about it. A big believer in a level playing field to start with, but where Jinsen would lament the act or necessity, Saigo is all business about it.

Quote:
I'll be eager to see what Saigo does next.

Honestly, you and me both.

_________________
At twilight's end, the shadow's crossed / a new world birthed, the elder lost.
Yet on the morn we wake to find / that mem'ry left so far behind.
To deafened ears we ask, unseen / "Which is life and which the dream?"


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 16 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group