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PostPosted: Fri Mar 27, 2015 9:07 pm 
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Again, another stream of notes taken as I was reading, so basically treat each paragraph as its own topic.

part 3


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2015 12:41 am 
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Thanks again for reading, and for the comments, Luna! I hope you'll enjoy the rest of the story!


I absolutely love Ursalyn and Petyr and the little inn they have. Ursalyn is very much the kind old soul that I have loved to know ever since I was a child, and Petyr reminds me a bit of myself -- well meaning but seemingly perpetually just a little short of doing well. I also love the idea of Bearfolk, though I had a hard time picturing Ursalyn as a polar bear rather than a black bear, especially with her and Petyr's choice of language.

I'm glad you enjoyed this part -- I'm very fond of Ursalyn and Petyr as well. Ursalyn has a sort of endearing gruffness to her, but you can tell that directness comes from a place of kindness. And Petyr -- as Aloise points out -- means well. He's just a little too preoccupied inside his own head at times, and it takes a little nudge from Ursalyn to bring him back to reality.

And, yeah, Bearfolk! I mean, we have basically every other kind of -folk in Magic, so why not Bearfolk, too? There's something about the image of Ursalyn, in her cornflower blue apron and spectacles, just towering over Aloise and Beryl, which makes me smile. I think the moment I like best is when she shakes Beryl's hand, and Aloise just sort of has to marvel at how big Ursalyn's paw is compared to Beryl.


That's another thing: I love the way you use language here. This is exactly what writers mean when they say you shouldn't use written accents -- you can convey so much more, so much more easily, simply with the proper choice of words. The reader's mind can fill in the rest.

Well, thank you very kindly. I tried to give Ursalyn and Petyr a bit of a distinctive way of speaking, compared to Aloise and Beryl. But I wasn't trying to lay it on thick, or anything. So I'm glad that came through.

And, yeah, there's a reason I don't ever try to write dialect, or accents, or anything like that. Namely, it's really, really hard to do well, and there are really only two possible outcomes -- it either works (uncommon), or it just sounds *awful* (very, very common). So I have a pretty strict "don't go there" attitude to that sort of thing. I hope my characters have distinctive sounds, and I hope that's reflected in the patterns and cadence of their speech, and the words they choose. Hopefully that's enough to convey their voices.

For example, I like the way Petyr says it gets "powerful cold" up on the mountain. There's something about the way he uses that expression which just fits with the way I see and hear him inside my imagination. He's very clear to me in that moment.


This line:

Quote:
After folding up her empty biscuit wrapper and placing it back in her pack – the mountain was beautiful and pristine, and Aloise was not about to leave her trash lying around – she stood up and did some simple stretching exercises, until her legs felt limber.


Feels a bit forced. I understand the reasoning behind it, and it does sound like something Aloise would consider, but as part of the narrative, it feels kind of like a tacked on message of pollution. I'd be curious what others think, but personally I think you could do without the bit about her trash.

I can see where you're coming from. The impetus for this passage was just a thought which occurred to me when I was writing this scene -- namely, that I bet a lot of planeswalkers wouldn't think twice about littering. Even leaving aside the I-wipe-out-whole-worlds-just-for-fun contingent, it just strikes me that, if you've become used to hopping from one world to another, tossing a biscuit wrapper on the ground probably doesn't seem like a big deal. I mean, it's not your world, right?

But, to Aloise, I think that would be a big deal. That's not the sort of thing she'd do. So I just called attention to it, as a sort of little character moment. (I think Ruwin's comment about this passage was something along the lines of: "It's not something I've ever thought about before, but of course Aloise doesn't litter.")

Actually, I have a very funny mental image of Fisco dropping a cigar butt on the ground, and Aloise picking it up, and following him across a dozen planes, and handing it back to him, with a very stern look on her face. Only to get an eyeroll in response, of course.

But, to your point, I agree that the interjection sticks out a little bit. I just sort of like it, so I left it in.


Typo:
Quote:
“What it I can’t make it?” she said. “What if I just slow you down?”

Should be "what if".

Thanks for the sharp eyes! I'll clean that up.


Quote:
“All I’ve ever given you is trouble, and all you’ve ever given me is kindness.”

I may be getting paranoid here, but I think this is another reference here...

I'm not conscious of this being a reference to anything else. But unintentional references have certainly slipped into my stories before, when I wasn't looking, so I can't categorically rule it out.


Hearing Beryl actually say "I'm not alright" was really affecting as well, because that's always the hardest part: admitting that you're not alright. Seeing her finally break down on herself enough to admit to Aloise that maybe, she's not alright, and maybe, she needs some help right now. It's knowing that difference between being brave enough to admit you need help and being so broken that it overpowers your unwillingness to admit it, and that we finally see where Beryl stands.

Yeah, I think this is a pretty big moment for Beryl. As much as she loves Aloise, and as much as she wants to be honest with her about what she's feeling, and how it's affecting her, she hasn't quite been able to let herself open up all the way. I think she's afraid that, as soon as she admits how bad she's feeling, Aloise will ask why -- that's the natural follow-up question, of course -- and, once Aloise asks, Beryl won't be able to not tell her the truth. And, in spite of everything she knows about Aloise, Beryl is still terrified of how Aloise might react. She's deadly serious when she worries that Aloise might tell her to leave. And she's equally serious when she says that, if you want me to leave, I'll leave, and you'll never have to see me again.

But, of course, that's not what Aloise wants. That's not how Aloise reacts. Aloise responds with kindness, and compassion, and understanding. She lifts the burden off Beryl's soul. And that's a moment which I know Beryl will remember and treasure for as long as she lives.


I think that by the end of this part I may have lost sight of where exactly they were going, but not of the point of the story itself, if that's understandable? Part of it may be the time it took to actually physically read it (I was stuck somewhere in their climb for like a week), but still I think the focus shifts enough toward the end that actually finding the temple becomes kind of fades into the background while we focus on Beryl and her reason for coming to Aloise. And to be sure, it needed that, she needed that, but it makes the ending a bit of a call to attention that, oh yeah, they're climbing this mountain to find this temple. I don't know whether this is a legitimate criticism or not, really, because I feel that it's mostly just because of my own circumstances of reading, but I thought it worth noting nonetheless.

I'm glad you mentioned it, and I totally understand what you're getting at. There are essentially two stories happening in parallel here. One is the story of Aloise and Beryl's expedition to discover the secret of "The Wanderer's Heart," and the other is the story of Aloise and Beryl. My hope is that, in more ways than not, those two stories overlap and complement each other. But, to some extent, they also move at their own pace, and with their own patterns, and -- unavoidably, I fear -- the focus occasionally shifts to one at the expense of the other. So I can see why that could feel a little muddled at times.

My hope is that, in most cases, the whole is greater than the sum of the parts. But it wouldn't shock me at all to discover that there are moments in the story -- or ways of reading and experiencing the story, for that matter -- during which the character arc crowds out the adventure arc, or vice-versa.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2015 3:48 pm 
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I totally agree that it's in-character for Aloise to not litter, but I just wanted to point out that the line itself kind of sticks out. That's why I was wondering about what other people thought about it (though as of yet I'm avoiding reading any other comments until I finish the story itself), because maybe it's just that the line itself is a little wonky and could be reconstructed to flow better? I wish I had a better way of saying what's wrong with it, but honestly I'm not sure I have that capacity.

----

With the reference thing, I was thinking you or Ruwin were sneaking in a reference to "A Bet on Kindness", since I had already noticed references to "Small Magic" and "Complications". But that's why I added the caveat that maybe, I'm just being paranoid, because the context really isn't there the same way it was with the other two references. Just wanted to make myself clear in case I wasn't in my earlier post.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2015 9:38 pm 
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I totally agree that it's in-character for Aloise to not litter, but I just wanted to point out that the line itself kind of sticks out. That's why I was wondering about what other people thought about it (though as of yet I'm avoiding reading any other comments until I finish the story itself), because maybe it's just that the line itself is a little wonky and could be reconstructed to flow better? I wish I had a better way of saying what's wrong with it, but honestly I'm not sure I have that capacity.

Hrm... you know what? I think it's because the line is positioned as an interjection inside another complete sentence. I do that a lot -- anyone who reads my stories will know that I am overly fond of the em dash, and it's use in this context.

But this might just be a case where simpler is better, and the ideas flow more smoothly if we separate them out. Try this on for size:

Quote:
After she was finished eating, Aloise folded-up her empty biscuit wrapper and tucked it back in her pack. The mountain was beautiful and pristine, and she was not about to spoil that by leaving her trash lying around. Then, having finished her tidying-up, she rose to her feet and did some simple stretching exercises, until her legs felt limber.

I think that helps a little bit. Now we're considering each though in turn, rather than having the bit about littering feel like it's shoehorned in between the things Aloise is doing.


With the reference thing, I was thinking you or Ruwin were sneaking in a reference to "A Bet on Kindness", since I had already noticed references to "Small Magic" and "Complications". But that's why I added the caveat that maybe, I'm just being paranoid, because the context really isn't there the same way it was with the other two references. Just wanted to make myself clear in case I wasn't in my earlier post.

Ah, I follow. No, it's not an intentional callback, in so far as I'm consciously aware. I mean, it's entirely possible that it echoes a line I've used before -- I find myself drawn to the same themes and phrases, so it wouldn't surprise me. But, no, it's not an intentional reference.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2015 10:22 pm 
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I've been sitting on these notes for like a month now but you posting 3:15 to Dayko reminded me that I should post these:


part 4


epilogue


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 27, 2015 6:46 am 
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I've been sitting on these notes for like a month now but you posting 3:15 to Dayko reminded me that I should post these:

Well, thanks again for reading, Luna, and for sharing your thoughts! This story was a long one, so I really appreciate that you took the time. I hope that you enjoyed the conclusion!


I'm a bit of two minds of the little quest that Beryl and Aloise have found themselves in. It is a nice little romp, but at the same time it feels... kind of cliché, I think? I mean, besides obviously being inspired by classic RPGs, it also carries an air of this convoluted and hidden villain treasure lair, like from, say, Harry Potter (apologies for the reference if you haven't read or seen the series) -- probably mostly due to the lack of any people or other living thing. It makes it feel a little unoriginal, because of how clearly its influences can be traced, and that kind of devalues the actual quest in my mind. At the same time, there's several things it does have going for it. First, it serves as a nice backdrop for the meat of the story, which is Aloise and Beryl's interactions. Secondly, from what I can recall, we don't really have this kind of story around here, or at the very least they're kind of rare, so while the quest itself may feel a bit borrowed, it is nice to have in terms of M:EM content, to provide more variety among our collected works.

I think your critique here is fair. Like you said, the whole "discover the secrets of a hidden temple filled with puzzles and traps" motif is what it is -- we're not breaking any new ground here. And, like you said, this portion of the story wears its influences on its sleeve, and it doesn't bother to try to hide them. That certainly carries with it the danger of feeling clichéd or unoriginal, and, while my hope is that people won't have that reaction, I will totally understand if they do.

To give a tiny peek behind the curtain, I tried really, really hard to think of an adventure that Aloise and Beryl could have inside the temple that didn't adhere so neatly to these sorts of genre conventions, and I just couldn't think of anything that I liked. I was really, really struggling to come up with something which felt fresh, and original, and innovative, and I was just grinding my gears down to powder in the process.

So, when Ruwin asked the question, "What's wrong with Indiana Jones-y," that sort of took me by surprise, because I had been taking it for granted that I didn't want to just copy those genre conventions. But, once the question was actually put that way, I realized I didn't have a reason, beyond a simple "it's been done." And I decided that, instead of trying to avoid these genre conventions, I could try to embrace them, instead, and try to use that to good effect. And I wound up liking how that played out because the rest of the adventure plot came straight from these sorts of genre conventions already. The mysterious map, the cryptic old story, the journey through the wilderness, the enchanted world, the kindly villagers, the mystical mountain -- I was already living in that sort of storybook land, and I was living there on purpose, because I wanted to have this sort of comfortable, familiar undertone to the action plot which the Aloise/Beryl relationship plot could both play with and against in different places. So, viewed from that perspective, it didn't feel like a cheat to stick so closely to the established script inside the temple -- it felt consistent with the rest of the piece. So the hope was that the fun comes from seeing the characters interact with this well-worn sort of story arc -- "Oh, look, puzzles! Let's solve them!"

But, again, I think your critique is totally fair, and I'm not surprised that you felt the way you did.


Having Beryl say "I’d follow you through Hell itself" my or may not be the best choice of line. As it is, we know very little of Aliavelli's religion(s) as to whether Beryl would believe or even know of a "Hell" (capital letter) as we would know it, much less that it would be called "Hell" and not something fantastical, like Erebos is for Theros. I'd be willing to believe that the concept of a hell would be multiversal, but again we don't have the context for Beryl and Aliavelli to apply it here. When I think about it, an easy alternative would be to reference the Blind Eternities -- something like "I'd follow you through all of the darkened Eternities" -- since it's something that would probably be more immediately relatable planeswalker to planeswalker.

Honestly, the capital-H Hell was just a learned habit on my part. I'm sure that religion on Aliavelli does include some form of afterlife, but you're probably correct that it's not a simple Heaven/Hell duality. I like your replacement line about the darkened Eternities, and I'm going to shamelessly steal it.

So... thanks! :D


A nice dragon?

Zing! :D


Joking aside, I can almost hear Aloise's specific stresses of the words here, which is marvelous.

That's really wonderful to hear. :)


Having finally gotten around to reading the meeting with the dragon, I must say you rather blew me away with his (her? its? did you ever state a gender?) backstory. It really tied in just... everything leading up to that moment. The book containing The Wanderer's Heart, the story itself, the plane they're on, the temple and puzzles, all suddenly have this marvelous context that makes it feel so purposeful instead of incidental. I had my suspicions when the heartseal with a dragon was first seen, but what you managed to do was pack so much more meaning into the puzzles than what was initially expected.

Well, I'm really glad that you liked this part. It was the good Mr. Ruwin who, back when I was trying to figure out what could possibly be inside the temple, and what could possible explain the endless winter, pointed out that a dragon was a possible answer to both questions. (After that, when he would make notes on my drafts, whenever Aloise and Beryl were speculating about what they might find at the top of the mountain, Ruwin would always write in the margin: "Dragon." Which always made me laugh.) And I liked that answer because I've never actually gotten to write about a dragon before now, and I was excited to finally have a good reason to do so.

I was also inordinately fond of the idea of a dragon priest who is actually just what that sounds like, and not some silly human who just worships dragons.

Anyway, Ruwin really helped to supply a lot of the backstory for the dragon, and it turned out to gel really nicely with the story that we were working on. So I'm really happy with how everything came together, here, and I'm glad that you enjoyed it.

The Wanderer is a "he," I believe, but I tried not to use too much gendered language, just because I wanted to keep the emphasis on his dragon-ness rather than anything else.


I'd also like to say that I kind of like the line of the scholar "valuing cleverness over wisdom, where the dragon valued peace over order". I feel it might be a little to "nudge-nudge, wink-wink, say no more", considering how the colors tend to be laid out for new players (I'm thinking rather specifically of a fold-out diagram that came with a deck I got a while back); but at the same time it is subtle -- not just coming out and saying what colors these are representing, but rather using those aspects of the colors to build the characters while also clueing you in to their colors.

Yeah, this was mainly just supposed to be The Wanderer's explanation for why he and his companions fell-out over time, but I did like that you could sort of read it as white's critique of blue, and blue's critique of white, respectively.


While obviously short, I like the shift in perspective, showing how Beryl looks from without. Now that I think about it, all of Beryl's stories have been from her POV, haven't they? It's odd to think about because I don't think I'd ever questioned it before. That's probably why I feel like I know her so well, unlike, say, Fisco, who keeps so guarded that he's rarely the POV character.

Yeah, we've pretty much always seen Beryl from inside her own POV. Before this story, "Reclamation" was the one real exception, because that was entirely from Astria's POV. We've stepped briefly into Astria's stiletto heels a few other times, and Aloise, Fisco, and Alessa have also had some POV sections, but never full stories. Mostly, we're seeing through Beryl's eye.

Which was one of the challenges I enjoyed about working on this story. It's entirely from Aloise's POV, until we get to the epilogue, which is The Wanderer's POV. Beryl is a participant the whole way through, but now we're on the outside looking in, and that was a different experience, I hope.

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