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PostPosted: Fri Aug 22, 2014 11:36 pm 
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So, it has been a few days and I feel like now is a good time to submit this. Of course, one should have already read Ruwin and Orcish's opus since this contains some oblique spoilers for their work. Providing you've already enjoyed what they've written, then go right ahead and, hopefully enjoy this extended, and somewhat detached, epilogue.

Check and Checkmate

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2014 12:11 pm 
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I have many, many things to say about this wonderful story, but I'm going to sit on them for just a little while, because reading this is reminding me about something else which I really need to get cracking on...

:D

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2014 10:32 pm 
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I have many, many things to say about this wonderful story, but I'm going to sit on them for just a little while, because reading this is reminding me about something else which I really need to get cracking on...

:D

I hope you kept your thoughts in your journal, because I'mma want to know everything when you choose to share.

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To deafened ears we ask, unseen / "Which is life and which the dream?"


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2014 11:12 pm 
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I write them down on my wish board, every night. :)

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2014 10:34 pm 
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Executive summary: I'm a big, big fan.

Non-executive non-summary below:

Spoiler


Thanks so much for posting!

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2014 7:58 pm 
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This helps provide some of the closure I was looking for in Rest for the Wicked, I think. Nice line callback, by the way. Yeah, I really love these two together.

I... also have some reservations about the final full destruction of the ceiling though... Hm.

But uh am I detecting a hint here that perhaps the ceiling started to crack/mana started flowing back due to the Duchess's machinations? If so, well played sir. Well played.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2014 11:19 pm 
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This helps provide some of the closure I was looking for in Rest for the Wicked, I think. Nice line callback, by the way. Yeah, I really love these two together.

I... also have some reservations about the final full destruction of the ceiling though... Hm.

But uh am I detecting a hint here that perhaps the ceiling started to crack/mana started flowing back due to the Duchess's machinations? If so, well played sir. Well played.

Well, in response to both your own and Orcish's comments about the ceiling, I have two things that I can say about that.
The first is the idea of impact. Sometimes worlds have to have their status quo shaken up. We're good about not destroying things every other week, but in the same way Orcish mentions the idea of walker's having a credible threat, what certain walkers do on worlds should stand as credible threats too. It similarly goes into the line Fisco and Jackie were talking about in Rest for the wicked, about how the change was coming because of the walkers. I mean, we know that the Chessmasters are sufficiently scary people without doing much, but when they are involved, you sort of have to expect greater consequences.

The lucky thing is that I think I've come up with a way to keep the ceiling intact while still doing what the Duchess wants to do. It'll still shake up the status quo, but maintain the ceiling's purpose.
If you want to ask about it, toss me a PM.

Btw, the callback line was totally unintentional. I wrote this before I knew what the title was, so when I first saw it, I thought to myself 'well now I'm going to have to change that line...' but eventually decided it worked well in a metacontextual sense.

Executive summary: I'm a big, big fan.

Non-executive non-summary below:

Spoiler


Thanks so much for posting!
So yeah, pretty much all your comments strike at exactly what I was aiming to do with them, which is, suffice to say, wonderfully validating.
I'm really glad that you like everything about their interaction because that is the core of what makes the piece. The same with the contrast between the two showing those kinds of extremes.

As to the cathedral, I will admit to drawing from a mental source, but it's nothing that has been used anywhere in the EM.

There is one last note that I sort of want to see about that I was hoping would be a thing.
Spoiler

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At twilight's end, the shadow's crossed / a new world birthed, the elder lost.
Yet on the morn we wake to find / that mem'ry left so far behind.
To deafened ears we ask, unseen / "Which is life and which the dream?"


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 2:35 pm 
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I really enjoyed this. I was really hoping we'd get to see these two in a meeting like this at some point, for a few different reasons. Firstly, I thought it would be cool. And it was. Also, I was curious about their relationship. It could have been played a few different ways. A part of me suspected that there really was no hatred or rivalry between the two, and it was very literally a game they play.

I really love the way the Shifter comes in second, and tosses his legs up on the pew. That motion was pretty much EXACTLY what I was imagining when he first entered, so I was happy to see it. His playing with the wire was also a very nice touch, and I enjoyed it the same way as I did his playing with the phial on Aliavelli. I find I like the Shifter a lot more than the Duchess (not as characters, just as "people." As characters, I think they're both fantastic!) But Shifter amuses me on a constant basis.

As for the island, honestly, I read the first half/three-fourths of this assuming it was some unimaginably distant location on Jakkard, like, if someone could manage to get beyond the Waste, maybe there's an ocean there or something. So when the Duchess asked why they destroyed the world, I at first thought she was referring to the original creation of the planar ceiling and speaking metaphorically. But that was based off of a preconception I came to the story with, and no fault of the narrative itself.

So yeah, I really like this piece, and I look forward to the next chapter in their ongoing struggle to cause misery to each other and the Multiverse at large!


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 9:11 pm 
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I really enjoyed this. I was really hoping we'd get to see these two in a meeting like this at some point, for a few different reasons. Firstly, I thought it would be cool. And it was. Also, I was curious about their relationship. It could have been played a few different ways. A part of me suspected that there really was no hatred or rivalry between the two, and it was very literally a game they play.
Oh they deeeeeefinitely hate each other, but they just have such a long shared history that they are well out of their honeymoon phase by this point. If that makes any sense.
Quote:
I really love the way the Shifter comes in second, and tosses his legs up on the pew. That motion was pretty much EXACTLY what I was imagining when he first entered, so I was happy to see it. His playing with the wire was also a very nice touch, and I enjoyed it the same way as I did his playing with the phial on Aliavelli. I find I like the Shifter a lot more than the Duchess (not as characters, just as "people." As characters, I think they're both fantastic!) But Shifter amuses me on a constant basis.
Yeah, he's definitely the more charismatic of the two, but there in lies the danger in dealing with him. It's his specialty to get you to like him. :laugh:
I really have to give credit to Orcish for the sense of motion that he's got, that was a feature that probably wouldn't have come to pass without the work he and I did during the Lies We Tell.
Quote:
So yeah, I really like this piece, and I look forward to the next chapter in their ongoing struggle to cause misery to each other and the Multiverse at large!
Pretty much the best thing I could have hoped for when I concepted these two so long ago.

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At twilight's end, the shadow's crossed / a new world birthed, the elder lost.
Yet on the morn we wake to find / that mem'ry left so far behind.
To deafened ears we ask, unseen / "Which is life and which the dream?"


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 9:28 pm 
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Barinellos wrote:
Pretty much the best thing I could have hoped for when I concepted these two so long ago.

Yeah, I suppose that's something I should comment on. I don't know how these characters came about, but whatever initial discussion existed about them was something I was not privy to. So I only ever heard about these obscure "Chessmasters" and a vague description of what they were capable of. It was sort of like a shared legend in the M:EM, at least to my point of view.

Seeing them realized like this is a really interesting experience. Characters like this are, I would imagine, really easy to mess up. But so far, at least, there has been no disappointment involved on my part. I'm really liking the way this is playing out so far, and the lingering, background threat that, for all we know, they have their fingers in yet other planes...

:plot:


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 9:50 pm 
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Have either of them ever come into contact with Ellia? I would imagine that their relationship would be a great subject for her to study, and try to deconstruct. Which would probably have terrifying consequences...

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 9:54 pm 
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Aaarrrgh wrote:
Have either of them ever come into contact with Ellia? I would imagine that their relationship would be a great subject for her to study, and try to deconstruct. Which would probably have terrifying consequences...

There... might be something very distressing there.
I haven't decided one way or another as to the Duchess's origins, but it's been floated that she might be the sole survivor of an AEther Vent, which means Ellia might have been directly involved in the possible destruction of her world and might have very well shaped the Duchess into what she is.

In which case, it would be a very very bad thing for Ellia to meet her. She might be more powerful in a direct conflict, but I don't know by how
much and the kind of forces that the Duchess can bring to bear are a LOT scarier than Ellia's resources.

But there again, I haven't really decided if I want to codify the Duchess's origin or not.

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To deafened ears we ask, unseen / "Which is life and which the dream?"


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 10:04 pm 
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I'm sure Ellia would be pleased to hear about that. After all, she is seeking to understand the nature of destruction, is she not? And to see the destruction indirectly caused by breaking a single world millennia ago would probably bring her about as close to happiness as she is capable of.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 10:11 pm 
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Aaarrrgh wrote:
After all, she is seeking to understand the nature of destruction, is she not?
Which is, of course, why it's hilarious she's one of the only beings who could be called Zhiran's contemporary considering he's seeking to understand the nature of creation.
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And to see the destruction indirectly caused by breaking a single world millennia ago would probably bring her about as close to happiness as she is capable of.
Right before the Duchess would set her mind to the task of cutting all the bonds of enchantment that are keeping Ellia ticking.

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Yet on the morn we wake to find / that mem'ry left so far behind.
To deafened ears we ask, unseen / "Which is life and which the dream?"


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 01, 2014 4:25 pm 
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Someday, I would really like to see a story featuring some insane conflict between Duchess, Shifter, Vasilias, Ellia and Zhiran. Just not on Jakkard, because too many people like that world, and whatever plane this happens on is likely going to get Arbagothed.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 01, 2014 4:50 pm 
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Quote:
Arbagothed


I'm not sure how accurate this is. If a plane were to be "arbagothed", that would imply some semblance of it would be left standing, if charred, blackened, wholly destroyed, and unrecognizable.

In the event of such a battle as you described, I'm certain not even THAT much would remain.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 01, 2014 4:51 pm 
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Quote:
Arbagothed


I'm not sure how accurate this is. If a plane were to be "arbagothed", that would imply some semblance of it would be left standing, if charred, blackened, wholly destroyed, and unrecognizable.

In the event of such a battle as you described, I'm certain not even THAT much would remain.

Truly, the Rulus are merciful. Yea!


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 20, 2014 9:23 pm 
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When mention of shattering the crystal ceiling came about, my immediate thought turned to Louder Than Words, actually. I know it was a minor point when that went up for vote that Lia really couldn't have just landed out in the wastes, and now I wonder if her story can't be shifted a little later on the timeline to fit after this fact.

As to the story itself... I feel like I can't really look at it in a vacuum since it's obviously setup for future plot(s) and gives the definite impression, even excluding your own admittance that this acts as a sort-of epilogue, that this is meant to follow Rest for the Wicked. Personally, I don't really enjoy the Duchess or the Shifter* as much more than devices to instigate or further the plot for characters I enjoy much more. I think their roles in Wild Card, The Lies We Tell, and Rest for the Wicked were perfect for them, to show how much they really interfere with planar happenings, but seeing them together didn't really do anything for me. I became much more interested in the physical layout of the plane they met on than anything else (though the Jakkard ceiling was a close second). I'm sorry it has to be that way, but maybe they just haven't had the time to grow on me?

I will say that the prose is brilliant, though. I know I often mention how I find your writing to be a bit too flowery, but this one was just masterfully written. Not a wasted word.


*I must ask at this point: should I capitalize both words when I refer to them, like "The Duchess and The Shifter" or just obey regular English laws concerning "the"? Basically I'm asking, is the "the" part of their name, or just a necessary English adaptation?

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 20, 2014 9:26 pm 
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*I must ask at this point: should I capitalize both words when I refer to them, like "The Duchess and The Shifter" or just obey regular English laws concerning "the"? Basically I'm asking, is the "the" part of their name, or just a necessary English adaptation?

While I'll leave that official answer up to Barinellos, I just want to say that for whatever reason, I really like the idea of capitalized the "The" for these two. I think it sort of speaks volumes about them with a very simple thing like that. That's just my opinion, of course.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 20, 2014 10:15 pm 
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*I must ask at this point: should I capitalize both words when I refer to them, like "The Duchess and The Shifter" or just obey regular English laws concerning "the"? Basically I'm asking, is the "the" part of their name, or just a necessary English adaptation?

While I'll leave that official answer up to Barinellos, I just want to say that for whatever reason, I really like the idea of capitalized the "The" for these two. I think it sort of speaks volumes about them with a very simple thing like that. That's just my opinion, of course.

Yeah, I tend to think of them as The since they loom so largely in terms of their scope. It's just like you can't even just call them Shifter of Duchess, you have to specify with The.

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Yet on the morn we wake to find / that mem'ry left so far behind.
To deafened ears we ask, unseen / "Which is life and which the dream?"


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