It is currently Sat Nov 30, 2024 8:33 pm

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 30 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Taking it from the top
PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2023 12:33 am 
Offline
Member

Joined: Sep 22, 2013
Posts: 12283
So, hear me out:
The overall sentiment right now is... not that appreciative of the story. I'm right there with you, honestly.
In some ways, it's a compounded effect, built up over a long long time that has finally buckled under its own weight.
That brings me to this. While I don't think I could claim there's much fixing the story where we are, I'm wanting to entertain... a different course.
Hence, I think I'm going to engage in some speculation for where the story could have gone if it had chosen... alternative paths.
My rules will overall be simple for this thought experiment.
1) If you feel like contributing or arguing the premise, sure. Let's go with it.
2) Native walkers will appear, basically, where they did. They have reason enough to be there, what with being from there.
3) I'll only be tweaking the bits of the story revolving around where the walkers show up, since they bloody well drove so much of the story. To that end, there will be some alterations insofar as how I feel the story can be improved upon and where meta reasons dictate things like color balance, I will attempt to adhere to it, but it will first and foremost be about the story itself.
4) I'm going to slowly work on this, never doing more than focusing on one block at a time, possibly casting my attention slightly forward as if it were a formulative design team. In essence, I'll consider where walkers might want to end up, but I'm not planning total arcs for anybody since the butterfly effect is probably going to be in heavy effect.
5) I won't be changing block/set order. As best I can, I will stick to the structure the design team had laid out, but I'm going to prioritize characters where they make sense. If that means there will be unavoidable issues like the horrendous dragged out Chain Veil arc... not sure if there's much I can do about that when it happens.
6) If a detail becomes established, it stands. Even if wotc later decided that those details were... Inconvenient, it freaking stands. Retcons will bounce off. I'm looking at you, Origins.

As a side note, there are 2 blocks I intend to skip right out of the gate. Lorwyn introduced the planeswalker card type, but it... really didn't matter. Alara, meanwhile... I don't really have any complaints about how anybody showed up. I mean, Tezzeret's appearance is weirdly out of sync with everybody else, but... eh. Native walker.

So, the first block that I will attempt to alter will be Zendikar. It might be in a few hours, it might be in a few days, we'll just have to see how the treatment goes.

_________________
At twilight's end, the shadow's crossed / a new world birthed, the elder lost.
Yet on the morn we wake to find / that mem'ry left so far behind.
To deafened ears we ask, unseen / "Which is life and which the dream?"


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat May 27, 2023 8:49 pm 
Offline
Member

Joined: Sep 22, 2013
Posts: 12283
Alright! Time to begin in earnest.
I have already said that I didn't really see anything wrong with Alara and intend to leave it as is. (I mean, there were problems, but nothing that changing out any individuals would actually make a difference towards.)
That brings us to Zendikar.

Going to be upfront, from the very first moment we got any story on Zendikar, there had been one detail that absolutely boggled me and kinda pissed me off the entire time.
From a lore standpoint, the events of the Purifying Fire and the duel between Jace and Chandra over the Dragon Scroll had taken place 3 years before the, at that time, present day. Consequently, Jace's sudden interest in the event always was just... stupid. It was a minor assignment he undertook during his time with the Infinite Consortium and not anything that he really had any reason to look into after having basically blown up his life during the events of Agents of Artifice. While it is minorly implied that Bolas might have nudged him, even the big ass lizard himself admitted that it was a gamble, and that's just needlessly contrived. What’s more, the encounter he had IMMEDIATELY prior to him off galivanting to Zendikar is an 8ft tall barbarian busting in looking for his ex and choking the crap out of him. I would think THAT particular event would be more pressing for him to follow a lead on.

With that admission out of the way, that brings me then to the most substantial change involved with Zendikar: No Jace.
And while I'm at it, I'll do one more: No Sarkhan.

Now, I know that sounds like it's going to mess up the flow, but I assure you, it won't. Instead, we have one individual that can fulfill both roles from a meta perspective.
A blue walker that can act as an agent of Bolas and that has a specialty in colorless artifacts. What's more, it would still effectively be a plant for the Mirrodin block as a roadsign.
In case it hasn't become apparent, I mean Tezzeret.

In Sarkhan's stead, Tezzeret is sent to the Eye of Ugin to study the Hedrons and the artifacts that are holding the Eldrazi in place. Along then, comes Chandra, who has been searching for Zendikar since the events of Purifying Fire, and additionally, we get Gideon searching for Chandra, but instead of showing up late, he takes Jace's place in the initial conflict, giving us the requisite 3 walkers there to break the first lock.

As a purely Melvin note, Tezzeret, Chandra, and Gideon would appear in the first set, to align best with the actual story flow, Worldwake would feature Sorin, and then Nissa would finish out in Rise of the Eldrazi.

From a narrative perspective, using Tezzeret in place of Sarkhan and Jace both doesn’t really profoundly impact Jace’s journey at all at this stage, but Sarkhan, it most certainly does. To what full extent? That… remains to be seen. It will really depend on when next Sarkhan makes an appearance, but that will only be the case when we actually see him next.

As for Chandra and Gideon, putting them actually next to each other again and further removed from the events of the Purifying Fire, I think we can actually move up the time table on how they respond to one another. The biggest hiccup Gideon’s early appearance causes is that he doesn’t actually encounter any Eldrazi and kick off the rather tepid prologue to actually doing the Gatewatch. Otherwise, I could see it in his nature to just go back to check on things later since he was involved in the altercation to discover the issue at that time.

Then we come to how we deal with Tezzeret. At the moment in canon, Bolas was rebuilding him mentally, but we don’t really need THAT much lead time to say he got fixed. What’s more curious is what effect it might have had on him being in the caves. I don’t see it having the same deleterious effect it did on Sarkhan, but for him to be unaffected would be… boring. So, something to ponder on that.

Comments are open and any speculative direction anyone wants to provide is perfectly open to such things. Next step will be our layover to Mirrodin to see… it’s maybe not doing so hot.

_________________
At twilight's end, the shadow's crossed / a new world birthed, the elder lost.
Yet on the morn we wake to find / that mem'ry left so far behind.
To deafened ears we ask, unseen / "Which is life and which the dream?"


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2023 5:30 pm 
Offline
Member

Joined: Jan 13, 2014
Posts: 211
I don't want to jump ahead too far but are you also going to consider how the story would have played out based on known "what if" paths from WotC (such as killing off Ajani and Vraska in WAR, or using Shelodred in Eldraine)? Also, don't want to step on your toes, but I'll throw out using Kasmina in WAR in Rat's role as a guide to Teyo/the audience on what a planeswalker is (and for extra spiciness, have her instigate Teyo's sparking behind the scenes).


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2023 12:13 am 
Offline
Member

Joined: Sep 22, 2013
Posts: 12283
VLW wrote:
Also, don't want to step on your toes, but I'll throw out using Kasmina in WAR in Rat's role as a guide to Teyo/the audience on what a planeswalker is (and for extra spiciness, have her instigate Teyo's sparking behind the scenes).

Heck, I'm just glad someone is willing to entertain my ramblings, never mind stepping on my toes.
I could see that being a decent choice. While I'm primarily focused on the issues of using Planeswalkers to push stories forward, I won't ignore that there is... we'll call it chaff, to be had among the other side of the story.

Quote:
I don't want to jump ahead too far but are you also going to consider how the story would have played out based on known "what if" paths from WotC (such as killing off Ajani and Vraska in WAR, or using Shelodred in Eldraine)?

I guess I'd be open to them, but my foremost concern is narrative cohesion and logic, then probably continuity after that. If there's space open to consider a twist, then I'm certainly willing to entertain it, but Eldraine is going to undoubtedly be going under the knife just because of how many half cocked plots got dumped into it an attempt to tie things into a bow.

And speaking of messes... Might as well open up to the mess that is Mirrodin.
So, already, there are 3 major factors going into this that I'm staring down.

The first is that Tezzeret isn't here to... do something? Yeah... his role was and has always been inane here. It was just an excuse to jam an artifact walker in there, but with him currently sitting in the meta and, theoretically caring about colorless things in general, his presence here isn't near so controversial. So.... SKIP.
Which is going to cause a small melvin problem, but I'll get to that.

Next up is... Scars of Mirrodin was BAD. There were literally 2 stories at play here. The one on the cards and the absolute slogfest that made up the book, which was just impressively awful. Truly terrible, and that's following up Teeth of Akoum, which was, by all rights, one of the worst we'd seen to that point.
But there in is part of the conundrum. Well, more so 2 specific characters causing that issue. The first was, as above, Tezzeret, and the next was... Glissa. In the book, Glissa was effectively the actual brain behind most of the plot and there always this hard disconnect between the cards/praetors and the book.
So... I put it up to a bit of a vote, which side do we fall onto? Do we follow the cards and try to build out the praetors earlier on, or do we go for that horrible phyrexian pathos and try to use Glissa?

The last bit is, I feel, going to be the actual controversial moment.
I'm not using Elspeth. I'm not tying her story to Phyrexia.

But Barinellos, I hear you all cry, if not Elspeth, then what will you do?
Well, the characters I know for certain that will see an inclusion for the sake of story remain to be Koth (native), Venser, and of course Karn.
That's only 3, you may shout. And yes, I can count... So, where am I going with this?
In the start of the story, we aren't even following Elspeth anyway. We're following AJANI.
I'm proposing that we use our good cat man to fill in that white walker slot, and heck, we might even boost him up to white/green a little early to cover that missing green walker that never appeared in Mirrodin.

Which brings us to our last rub: That's 4.... instead of 5.
That is true... Tezzeret got used a block early, and Sarkhan, quite frankly, doesn't make any sense to use here. (He barely was justified in Zendikar) so... for balancing and meta purposes, that does put us in a bind. With Elspeth's plans going on momentary hold (I have somewhere I'm going there) that means there are only 4 walkers in Scars block. I'm not really that interested in trying to bring in any of the ones we've already seen print on again either and doing a bit of a flash forward to get someone doesn't settle with me either.
So... what do I do there?
Well, in that, I ask you to just... trust me. We'll make up that extra walker when we get to the next block.

_________________
At twilight's end, the shadow's crossed / a new world birthed, the elder lost.
Yet on the morn we wake to find / that mem'ry left so far behind.
To deafened ears we ask, unseen / "Which is life and which the dream?"


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue May 30, 2023 2:18 am 
Offline
YMtC Pro Tour Champion
User avatar

Joined: Sep 22, 2013
Posts: 14370
Personally, I'm in favor of following the story from the cards/Minisite over QFK

I'll inject here that there was one Phyrexian I thought was underutilized even by the standards of how underutilized most phyrexians not named Elesh Norn were: Kraynox, the Deep Thane. When the seven thanes were first detailed, Kraynox fascinated me, providing a link between New Phyrexia and Old. Thing is, despite New Phyrexia evolving into a form that seems largely in line with Kraynox's vision, the Deep Thane never even bothered to show up for ONE/MOM. True, maybe Wizards is saving the no-name Thane of all individuals to herald the eventual return of Phyrexia (marketable villains always find a way)

Which makes me want to bring up the fanficcy idea I always had for how the War of the Praetors would go, that I put off because I knew it would be done and would be done differently. Essentially, Norn becomes the "Force to beat" once Karn is gone, but rather than getting most of the factions behind her, she simply ends up with the perilous position of heading the largest single faction. Sheoldred and Vorinclex largely oppose her, while Urabrask and Jin are more working on their own agendas. Norn would end up falling, but there would be a split down the middle of the remains of Phyrexia -- Urabrask and Thrissik would be backing Urabrask's candidate -- the "Destroyer" (per Thrissik's philosophy) who would remake Phyrexia and redefine what it means to be Phyrexian... Melira "Mother of Flesh", the incorruptible force that requires Phyrexia to understand synthesis with the 'other' and through that, ultimately, peace. Jin and Kraynox would end up being the major players of the restoration faction, with Jin as Father of Machines and Kraynox as his crazy Merlin-esque seer -- a unity of new and old creating a truly 'alien' Phyrexia with Yawgmoth's capacity for millennial scheming but divorced from his once-human egoism. Lastly, Glissa would destroy or suborn Vorinclex to take charge of a faction consisting of the green Phyrexians, most of the white remnants, and some of the shards of black like Geth (Black does invade every slice of the color pie in Phyrexia after all). That faction would bee all about the brutality and evolution. The weak die, but life and death are unending cycles to produce "strength" -- a more egotistical, less infections take on Norn's world. After all, they don't want *everybody*, only the "worthy".

Feel free to salvage that for whatever bits and bobs you want.

_________________
"Enjoy your screams, Sarpadia - they will soon be muffled beneath snow and ice."

I have a blog. I review anime, and sometimes related media, with an analytical focus.

I'm a (self) published author now! You can find my books on Amazon in Paperback or ebook!
The Accursed, a standalone young adult fantasy adventure.
Witch Hunters, book one of a young adult Scifi-fantasy trilogy.


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed May 31, 2023 4:56 am 
Offline
Member

Joined: Sep 22, 2013
Posts: 12283
The biggest frustration in trying to hammer out some sequence to the Phyrexian war is that the majority of the heavy lifting was done in non story driven products like commander.
That said, even though I HATED All Will Be One, they unquestionably got the right of it in that Norn was the most highly marketable and striking of the praetors. With her Silent Hill looks, she definitely was the face for the new generation.

Of course, that's before they absolutely obliterated their design schema by somehow making the New Phyrexians look like the Thran tech and sanding off virtually all the personality.

That said, I feel my own approach would be to actually have a power struggle... Y'know, matter.

For one thing, with Tezzeret disengaged, that completely cuts off their use of the Bridge, which means the highest likelihood is that Jin-Gitaxias actually continues the work in the Soul Conduit.

The immediate thought, at this early a stage, having just gotten a sense of it all is that Glissa already rends Vorinclex apart and integrates something of him into herself, seizing power of the Swarm and subtly forms an alliance with Jin, while Norn baits Sheoldred into overplaying her hand and retributively murdering her and taking over the black faction altogether. Urabrask stays quiet.

As a further elaboration, one of the reasons I'm seeding Ajani in place of Elspeth is the potential that even this far back, he's exposed to the oil and sets him up for a sleeper role far far down the line if we wanted to tread those footsteps. Also, they mention in Theros he'd been to Mirrodin, despite that making not a damn bit of timeline sense.

So, with that commentary out of the way, there's a bad moon a rising, next time, as I turn my attention to Innistrad.

_________________
At twilight's end, the shadow's crossed / a new world birthed, the elder lost.
Yet on the morn we wake to find / that mem'ry left so far behind.
To deafened ears we ask, unseen / "Which is life and which the dream?"


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jun 01, 2023 6:43 am 
Offline
YMtC Pro Tour Champion
User avatar

Joined: Sep 22, 2013
Posts: 14370
Innistrad is in an interesting place for this because it's where the novel line got canned (again), so we pretty much have the cards alone to work with. It's also deeply tied to one of OG Canon's biggest whiffs.

_________________
"Enjoy your screams, Sarpadia - they will soon be muffled beneath snow and ice."

I have a blog. I review anime, and sometimes related media, with an analytical focus.

I'm a (self) published author now! You can find my books on Amazon in Paperback or ebook!
The Accursed, a standalone young adult fantasy adventure.
Witch Hunters, book one of a young adult Scifi-fantasy trilogy.


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jun 01, 2023 5:30 pm 
Offline
Member

Joined: Sep 22, 2013
Posts: 12283
Innistrad is in an interesting place for this because it's where the novel line got canned (again), so we pretty much have the cards alone to work with. It's also deeply tied to one of OG Canon's biggest whiffs.


So... In certain fashions, the overall narrative is going to remain on the rails, but there will be substantially more compartmentalization of narrative elements.
If you'll recall from above, Scars of Mirrodin had 4 walkers and certain colors in their entirety were missing. Black more than any (Koth representation not withstanding. :V ) and blue.
Well, overall, THAT'S going to get largely addressed, because this particular block is going to have 6 walkers.

The first set, we're going to get the introduction to the world through the eyes of Garruk, still suffering under the curse as he searches for Liliana, who is searching for her demon.
However, after having been freshly strangled by the 8ft tall man who probably smells eye watering even in the best of times, Jace has come along for the ride to check on his ex. There's much to be said about the tumultuous relationship, especially given how it ended previously, but Jace still undoubtedly cares enough to worry, even knowing Liliana is a big girl. This is a MUCH more sound reason for Jace to appear than most. Sadly, and I do mean sadly, it means that with Blue accounted for, we'll have to push back Tamiyo's debut. Don't worry, I have a place for her, but it's just going to have to happen later.

Overall, the first set wouldn't see much difference, with it being kind of a race between the 2 parties to track down their shared objective.

Rolling into Dark Ascension, we get Liliana, having been located by both parties. However, she's not alone. Again, a ripple effect for having included Ajani in Scars of Mirrodin is that Elspeth got kicked out. Well, here's where she's washed up, sworn to the Church of Avacyn and under the tutelage of Thraben's own guardian, Thalia.
Here, we pivot, as Liliana gets distracted from her quest by an ex that desperately needs to say some things that got put off for way too long. And speaking of putting things off way too long, Garruk busts in and Jace's presence helps Liliana escape.
Delayed, Liliana doesn't get to the point that her very stupid weird ultimate is used mechanically to try to justify busting open the Helvault. Instead, that comes to a color that is more used to dealing with artifacts and Elspeth thinks she's figured it out, knowing that Angels are really, fundamentally not that different than demons when it comes to their bodies, so she puts 2 and 2 together and that throws her into conflict with Thalia, where we get some good emotional beats where Elspeth is forced to betray Thalia's trust for what she believes is the good of the church while Thalia is arguing the same.
Admittedly, while the themes of Innistrad slightly retread the events that drove her off Bant, I think Innistrad being used as a redemption point for Elspeth not running away is... SUBSTANTIALLY better. Plus, I just think she'd have a sweet aesthetic on Innistrad, but maybe that's because I've been hanging around the Adeptus Sororitas too much lately.

In Avacyn Restored, we have Liliana dispatch the newly freed Griselbrand, and Sorin returning home from Zendikar effectively dates this as being BASICALLY the same time as the previous 2 sets, giving the idea that there is forward progression, but that events are stacked on top of each other much more than in main canon. This also makes sense between Jace and Garruk, since their meeting originally led into Zendikar, but that's no longer true, letting just enough time pass before they both end up here.
With Sorin back, he discovers things have been kinda messed up while he was dealing with one very stupid elf, but things have... after a fashion, taken care of themselves. However, seeing that his absence really caused problems, and with the Helvault no longer a contingency, he renews his commitment to not wander off, which is more in line with his character anyway.
Unfortunately, even with Avacyn back, it comes to his attention that some upstart is being a pain (pun intended) and we get a proper explanation for Sorin v. Tibalt to cap off the story.


So, in conclusion, you can see that a lot of the plot beats still happen, but it gives individual parties a lot more personal agency in how they act, rather than the story bending around the needs of the characters, the characters serve the point of the story. At least in my opinion.

Tamiyo, unfortunately, gets sidelined for the moment, but her excuse for being there was always STAGGERINGLY weak, so... as much as I like her, she wasn't even remotely necessary, but never fear, for on the horizon, I have plans for her actual first appearance. Otherwise, the other thing that ends up causing a ruckus is that Jace being here makes his next canon appearance start to look.... funny.
But that'll have to wait until next time, when we Return to Ravnica.

_________________
At twilight's end, the shadow's crossed / a new world birthed, the elder lost.
Yet on the morn we wake to find / that mem'ry left so far behind.
To deafened ears we ask, unseen / "Which is life and which the dream?"


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Jun 03, 2023 7:50 pm 
Offline
Member

Joined: Sep 22, 2013
Posts: 12283
So, moving into Return to Ravnica, I want to say that if there are any moments or plot points from past bits that anybody feels they should comment on, they should feel free to do so. Nothing I've covered thus far has any ripple effects into other blocks as of yet.
Which... is kind of a lie starting exactly here. See, with Jace occupied in Innistrad trying to sort of the mess with Liliana, that does kind of mean that we have our first very significant and major shake up to the plot where it goes off the rails. Jace was the protagonist of Return to Ravnica, but... I'm not reusing him.

There's a handy secondary character we can pivot to, but before we get to that, I want to actually say that there are 2 major things I'm going to be addressing about the plot.
The first is the retcon that the guilds never lost power. That's out, I'm proceeding with the idea that they may still be around, but it has been a BAD time for them to the point that they are shades of themselves. Half the Boros have split off to form a private security company, and the Selesnyans were basically gutted when their manipulations were revealed. So... among other things is the fact that I feel like I definitely want to farm out help in determining exactly HOW bad off the guilds are going into this, because the second part is... equally contentious.

See, originally, the plan for the Maze's End was to somehow realigned the very multiverse itself to plop Ravnica as the new Nexus around with all the other planes turned. I'm... very very glad they didn't do that, for any of a number of reasons. However, I bring that up because it clearly illustrates that they kind of charged headlong into this without the endgame solidly planned out, which is why the entire "Living Guildpact" thing is... REALLY bad.

But with no Jace and my own vehement need to avoid like hell the Living Guildpact fiaso, that does put us in an awkward position of... what is this actually about?
And to that end, I think the wacky races will be about magically cementing the guilds back into power... but, unlike the canon, where they were already IN power, this one will have a case exactly like Jace, where ANY entrant can run, and it's just the first 10 across the line imbued by some group as their representative. That opens up a LOT of narrative space, and very specifically, let's us play one other role: The Infinite Consortium, freshly put back together by Bolas and acting in his shadowy agenda.

What's more, it also makes the second set and the Gateless Revolution not... y'know, an entirely pointless headache and distraction.
In a larger sense, I will also say that we won't be seeing any fundamental change in how the Guildpact works, it's just going to have a... undocumented effect of locking in the competition to the color identity that's missing, kind of providing a slight "damned if you do" approach.

And with all that preamble, we finally come to the actual features of the damn block.
Jace, again, with no interest or excuse, is not around, but his deuterantagonist will instead be the hero of this story. I'm, of course, talking about Ral Zarek, who as a native, actually has a vested interest in going along with this. Hopefully with more of a focus on him, we can also kill off the really stupid garbage tier shipping that was rampant that was trying to pair Ral off with every guy possible. For one, he wasn't even gay at this point, so that really got under my skin. But now's as good a time as any to actually highlight his sexuality because I don't see any reason not to include Tomik in the story as well.
Similarly, we have Domri Rade, though I abhor the little snot. All the same, he's a native and nominally a member of the Gruul somehow. I don't like him, but he's here.
And rounding out our native bunch, we end up with Vraska, and in this, we have the potential to lay foundations into the character so they aren't such bullcrap before all that. As a g/b walker, one could argue she's set to pick up the Golgari banner, but later on, we know she ends up in Bolas's pocket, so... why not now? Makes more sense than her becoming a pirate.

So, that's 3 of 5 already locked down. So, what about Gideon, if Jace is gone?
Well... so's Gideon. The plot point of him doing double time on Ravnica for the Boros and also fighting the Eldrazi just isn't a plot point here considering he was involved in actually freeing them this time, and there's nebulous thought that he's even aware of what that means, but his plan to be on Ravnica never made any sense either.
Again though, that does cause more friction, so, who's to say that Vraska is Bolas's only agent in this race? For that matter, we have one servant that needs a color adjustment to put him on the right path, and heck, we probably need to remind everyone what he's been up to, much less who he is. That's right, I'm talking about Bolas seeding multiple entries by bringing in Sarkhan Vol. And some might argue "well that's a nonsensical option. Barinellos, you said the choices would only make sense!" and to that I say "shaddup! The third set is called Dragon's Maze, isn't it?! Shouldn't someone that knows dragons be around!?" and that is my extremely strained excuse to put Sarkhan in.

But, with all that said... that does leave us one walker short. For bettre or worse, I'm kind of at a loss for who else to pick, with the only option that I really like for metatextual reasons being the long awaited debut of Kiora Atua to show up side by side her other Duels of the Planeswalkers 2011 alum, Ral.
Unfortunately, I don't exactly have a very good reason for her to be here... I mean, not like her snatching the Bident from Thassa in Theros was a very good reason either, but maybe she's somehow tied to the reappearance of the merfolk on Ravnica without being a native?
I dunno... This one is definitely one that would benefit from some input my fellows, so if you'll be so kind to give us some feedback, we'll figure out where this maze actually ends.
Until next time.

_________________
At twilight's end, the shadow's crossed / a new world birthed, the elder lost.
Yet on the morn we wake to find / that mem'ry left so far behind.
To deafened ears we ask, unseen / "Which is life and which the dream?"


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Jun 03, 2023 11:00 pm 
Offline
YMtC Pro Tour Champion
User avatar

Joined: Sep 22, 2013
Posts: 14370
Boy howdy RtR ground my gears back when, but your version is looking up.

It's kind of funny the antipathy I hold for Ravnica given that my favorite D&D setting is Planescape, and while I love Planescape in large part for the wild mysteries that can be explored in realms strange beyond mortal ken, it *does* rather revolve around Sigil, City of Doors, which is similar enough to Rav that I remember a parody article when Rav 1 came out that presented Sigil as the next M:tG Setting.

Sigil had an event similar to the Rav 1 fall of the guilds called The Faction War. It dramatically changed the power structure of Sigil, with the one force that can't be gainsayed declaring that the Factions were no longer welcome in Sigil itself ("This city tolerates your factions no longer. Abandon it or die."), forcing the entire machinery of governance to be rewritten. Many of the factions survived (Sigil may have been the crown jewel but most had headquarters and all had holdings outside of it)... but not all of them, with some factions merging, splitting, radically transforming, or disbanding. This was an extremely contentious decision that ruffled a lot of feathers. It also happened right at the end of 2nd Edition's life cycle so not much was done with the new factions or new free Sigil, so most of the fan content that has kept the Planescape interpretation of the Planes alive has run with a Multiverse where the Faction War hasn't happened... at least not yet.

I feel like the Faction War may have been on minds at WotC when they decided that the Guilds were alive and well just like old times: they didn't want the fan reaction that Faction War got, where people roundly rejected their favorite teams no longer existing in the forms with which they were familiar. But, while I love the classic Factions, part of why they were stuck with is that there was never a body of content for the post-Faction War versions. I think the War itself and the restructuring could be a positive model, given that in our ideal rewrite of canon, we would go on to support the iconography and identity of the NEW guilds at least as hard as the old ones.

Ultimately, for Ravnica, ten two-color guilds take over for the new guildpact... but that doesn't mean they're exactly the same ones with the same heritage. For this, I'd like to trace what may have happened to the old guilds and what might replace them

:w::u: Originally The Azorius Senate. With the Guilds being removed from power, the Senate ceases to be relevant. Essentially, it's finished as a guild and has been for a while. But though Augustin was a very naughty man (and ultimately a very dead man) I don't think the Senate would largely have been violently dismantled. Many guildmembers likely abandoned their identity, but not their roles, and continued to serve Ravnica in law and government, likely forming new and diverse teams against each other as politicians are wont to do. Others, however, would have held to the identity, the vision of perfect order. They would have done so with a nearly religious or even an entirely religious fervor, and especially when Ravnica without the Guilds started to get a little too... volatile for a lot of common people (more on that later) their vision would have attracted followers. The Church of Deals likely fell on bad times as well. Teysa was (is?) good news, but their machinery relied on a lot of support to keep their flock in order through some flagrant and horrific abuse. Without the guildpact to protect them, I think the Obzedat would have been split on what to do. Many of them, deciding that they could repeat the same old racket with new hats, ended up allying with the remnants of the Azorius. Teysa and others like her with legal professions would have helped. The result, after many years, is The Church of Azor the Lawbringer

:u::b:: House Dimir is gone... but House Dimir never existed in the first place, did it? The way I see it, House Dimir would become one of the new Guilds, but with absolutely no continuity with its former incarnation. The name and climate of secrecy are taken up by what we know in Canon as the "Gateless". Essentially, the Dimir become something like the ending of V for Vendetta. Anyone, driven to crime and forced into the shadows by what they see as the ills of Ravnican society, can unfetter themselves from their normal morals, paint an eye-spider on a carefully chosen wall, and start slitting throats. And every time somebody does, even if they had no ties to anyone, the idea of House Dimir grows stronger. By the time it's Maze Running time, there is an informal "House Dimir", those who have taken up the banner of Ravnica's phantoms, the best and brightest of the lot coordinating with each other to run the black markets... and punish those who the law won't touch, because nobody is above a knife in the dark. Thus, when the dust settles House Dimir is once again recorded among the ten Guilds.

:r::b: The Cult of Rakdos has been having a good time. Their natural checks, the Boros and Azorius, have been erased, and while the carnival cult is not afforded the mystical protection it once was... they're also pretty badass, what with the demons and psychopaths and all. In all honesty, they're probably one of the biggest reasons why anybody would want the return of the Guild era, when at least somebody kept the Rakdos in line. Naturally, this means that The Cult of Rakdos has an easy path back to Guild status.

(More later I have to break for dinner)

_________________
"Enjoy your screams, Sarpadia - they will soon be muffled beneath snow and ice."

I have a blog. I review anime, and sometimes related media, with an analytical focus.

I'm a (self) published author now! You can find my books on Amazon in Paperback or ebook!
The Accursed, a standalone young adult fantasy adventure.
Witch Hunters, book one of a young adult Scifi-fantasy trilogy.


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jun 04, 2023 12:52 am 
Offline
YMtC Pro Tour Champion
User avatar

Joined: Sep 22, 2013
Posts: 14370
:r::g: The Gruul Clans, like the Rakdos, have been enjoying a lack of fetters more than suffering a lack of installation. In general, I suppose removing the guilds from formal power was always going to be harder on the "lawful" types. However, they're probably less good at maze-running in general, which means that the fact that Domri is pushing their effort forward is going to shape a lot of what the Gruul or Nu-Gruul are. Ultimately, I think he ends up losing the Maze effort for the Gruul, meaning that while they still exist and are quite powerful, they are NOT enshrined as one of the Ten True Guilds of Ravnica. This goes on to feed Domri's bitterness and his willingness to join up with Bolas in order to topple the guilds and shatter their pact. Instead, a different representative ends up taking the :r::g: slot. The Gruul are rendered outcasts. But who takes their place? How about one of Ravnica's more chairsmatic (in that he's reused) guildless individuals? The Guild slot goes The Tin Street Gang (Finalized name pending), under Krenko. They're a mob of violent reprobates, mostly goblins, but like any good mob they also have a family vibe. Unlike the Dimir, who are high-minded spiders (when they're not lining their own pockets through counterintelligence, terrorism, extortion, and revenge) and a secretive cabal of who takes up the name and gets invited, Krenko's gang is all about the little people (so they say), and as Krenko faces the responsibility of moving up in the world shows off their green side (other than the whole outside because, ya know, goblins) by running soup kitchens and the like. The Dimir steal from the rich and keep everything for themselves, the Tin Street Gang burns down a block because things kinda got out of hand but makes sure to give the ashes to the poor.

:g::w:: The Selesnya were rather thoroughly dismantled, as you say. Honestly, the power vacuum here is nearly total. Something would fill in the gap, but I don't think it's predicated on the old guilds. It's possible that as of the start of the Dragon's Maze trial, there's no strong power base backing a contender in this philosophical bracket, and that the guild comes together AFTER a new parun has been raised up, not backing a Parun-to-be or their champion. The logical choice for the new faction leader, who is saddled with founding a faction because they didn't want somebody bad to cross the finish line, would be Emmara Tandris, since she's a known character in the right color bracket with only tenuous ties to the philosophy and order of the Canon Selesnya (She's one of them technically, but she never feels like she really belongs to the same brainwashing vibe as Trostani or the old Conclave), but while I'll pencil in The Tandris Ministry I'd be interested in other options.

:w::b:: So, the Orzhov went and had a little schism. Some saw strength in "going straight" and melded with the Azorius to form the Church of Azor. But what about the members of the Ghost Council and their power base that were dyed-in-the-wool crooked? Some would probably do their damnedest to maintain the Church of Deals, but Orzhova's star has fallen, and what precious gold they have is waning. The smart ones, however, looked for new allies sufficiently dark for their tastes and sufficiently powerful to bring something to the table. They found one of the elements of old Ravnica that was tragically never followed up on, Agryem. There's a whole world of ghosts brought in concord with Ravnica, opening new worlds for the connection between the living and the dead. This ultimately creates The Agryem Spiritualists, a union of the departed (including many members of the old Ozbedat, and likely Szadek as well wrangling his army of ghosts into the alliance), with their mortal members being mediums, channelers, exorcists, and other types with the proper connection to deal with everything spooky, giving the Spiritualists a very clean and recognizable look and feel with their effective seances.

:r::w:: As mentioned, the Boros broke down a good deal, a lot of them fracturing off into PMCs and mercenary enclaves. Others would have kept up "the good fight", trying to keep Ravnica's streets clean and some semblance of justice enforced during the tumultuous transition period. It's likely they would have been despised by many for a good deal of this time, because there was little way to tell between an ex-Legion Don Quixote trying to maintain the chivalry and honor of a vanished order, and an ex-Legion Thug using whatever weight his blood-stained badge has left to bully those around him. Ultimately, pulling together a true new Boros would have fallen to exactly one Ravnican: Feather, last of the Firemane and a solitary light in the darkness (Aurelia who?). Feather, once disgraced and now alone, would put a high stock on honor, and never abandoning the right path no matter how hard it became. To that end, she would have led something of a crusade, those loyal to her and her ideals against the thugs and mercenaries who would stain the Boros legacy with their misdeeds. Over time, while a lot of former officers remained martial scumbags, the other shards dropped the Boros name and iconography. Feather's Bosos, without the Guildpact, could never reclaim its former glory, especially not on scale, but that might have been turned to their advantage as they came to be made up of firm believers -- devout, honorable... chivalrous. They re-emerge styled as The Knightly Order of Boros.

:u::r: I will venture fairly little about the Izzet league, mostly because I think a) of all the "look and feel" of the guilds, the Izzet were perhaps most prime to what Ravnica was and is -- a eucmenopolis demands a lot of techist infrastructure; and b) I think we may still need the old lizard. Thus, I posit that Niv Mizzet returned yet again after ducking out of his Nephilim fight and fairly easily re-gathered his cult of personality and mad science. The Izzet League had a hiccup there, but it's alive and well.

:u::g: The Simic Combine was erased -- nothing of their organization survived the fallout of Project Kraj. The scientists who did were likely snapped up by the Izzet, with ol' Niv being willing to overlook a few crimes against nature in order to onboard talented minds. Others, who could deny their ties to Vig's order, slipped into quiet lives, likely helping ex-Selesnya continue to manage the food industry of Ravnica. However, we know something entirely new to the order is coming to replace them with the emergence and rise of Ravnica's merfolk. In my mind, Kiora actually triggers this: she's planeswalked to Ravnica multiple times in her life and at least once, being who and what she is, manifested in the sub-surface ocean. There, she was able to relate what she knew of Ravnica's surface to the new wonderful friends she found down there, like Prime Speaker Zegana. Long had the Merfolk, shunted away by the guilds, survived in the buried seas by the virtue of their biomantic magic alone. Now, knowing that the mystical pact no longer opposes them, they open sinkholes and make their introductions to the surface. With their power (similar in result but different in nature to the old Simic biomancy) they're able to induct landwalkers as second-class citizens in their power structure, an offer that many are willing to accept whether for knowledge, the protection that being part of something offers, or just the literal benefits of being made a Deep One Hybrid. The Deep Clades may be of interest for Ex-simic looking for a good Argentina to hide in, but they have no reason to take on the Simic name or iconography, and at least when it comes to the surface world they're still the new kids on the block (no more than a couple years) in terms of the power bases.

:b::g: The Golgari Swarm has seen better days. Remarkably, they didn't collapse like a flan in the cupboard after the kerfluffle surrounding the Decimillennial, mostly because a lot of their membership are the dispossessed under-dwellers who really have nowhere else to go and no reason to abandon their power structure and philosophy even when it's struck from being officially supported by the mystically enforced government of Ravnica. That said, while not the threat to normal folks' life and limbs that the Rakdos or Gruul could be, most people don't like the Golgari. They're weird, creepy, rather macabre, and have a life style that involves a lot of digging around in trash. It's a thankless job. As such, they've experienced a slow and steady decline that their leadership has had a hard time stopping, and as of the Maze Run they don't yer know how bad rock bottom is going to be. Incorporating the Kraul and continuing to take in rag-pickers and other lost and diseased without judgment has helped reduce the bleeding, but it hasn't fixed anything. As much as slow and stately decay suits the Golgari, the maze run offers them a way out of their death spiral, getting back on that "alive" side of the cycle of life and death, and Vraska is certainly helping their cause. The Golgari Swarm will resurrect itself, but really it never exactly left.


Summary
The Azorius are now a church
The Dimir are a new group of phantom thieves, organized crime, and bitter killers who took up the old name
The Rakdos are having a ball
The Gruul are still there but Domri sucks so Krenko promotes his gang to Guild status.
The Selesnya are toast, maybe Emmara starts something on her own.
The Boros are knights now, led by Feather
The Orzhov are done as a relevant power, but Agryem has united into a spooky faction. Szadek probably kicking around.
The Izzet are fine
The Simic are totally gone, the Merfolk are officially their own independent thing
The Golgari need a renaissance, but are otherwise the same old Golgari.

_________________
"Enjoy your screams, Sarpadia - they will soon be muffled beneath snow and ice."

I have a blog. I review anime, and sometimes related media, with an analytical focus.

I'm a (self) published author now! You can find my books on Amazon in Paperback or ebook!
The Accursed, a standalone young adult fantasy adventure.
Witch Hunters, book one of a young adult Scifi-fantasy trilogy.


Last edited by Tevish Szat on Sun Jun 04, 2023 3:31 am, edited 1 time in total.

Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jun 04, 2023 1:38 am 
Offline
Member

Joined: Sep 22, 2013
Posts: 12283
Assume if I don't respond to any portion of the post, I think we're on the same page.
:w::u: Originally The Azorius Senate. With the Guilds being removed from power, the Senate ceases to be relevant. Essentially, it's finished as a guild and has been for a while. But though Augustin was a very naughty man (and ultimately a very dead man) I don't think the Senate would largely have been violently dismantled. Many guildmembers likely abandoned their identity, but not their roles, and continued to serve Ravnica in law and government, likely forming new and diverse teams against each other as politicians are wont to do. Others, however, would have held to the identity, the vision of perfect order. They would have done so with a nearly religious or even an entirely religious fervor, and especially when Ravnica without the Guilds started to get a little too... volatile for a lot of common people (more on that later) their vision would have attracted followers. The Church of Deals likely fell on bad times as well. Teysa was (is?) good news, but their machinery relied on a lot of support to keep their flock in order through some flagrant and horrific abuse. Without the guildpact to protect them, I think the Obzedat would have been split on what to do. Many of them, deciding that they could repeat the same old racket with new hats, ended up allying with the remnants of the Azorius. Teysa and others like her with legal professions would have helped. The result, after many years, is The Church of Azor the Lawbringer

I'm about as equally split about the idea. On the one hand, The Administorum and Ecclesiarchy are basically the same thing. (Okay, promise, that's the only 40k nod I'll make)
The other side of the coin is, I just don't think the trappings are compatible. While I can see the Church of Azor spring up, effectively making the police and senate a holy calling, I just don't see the Orzhova aspects meshing with deifying Azor. One big wrinkle in this is the position Isperia took and how much of a hiccup that was from one iteration to the next.
Teysa is also... not what I would call a faithful individual. While she strongly believes in the law, I cannot see her shedding the blue blood aspects in favor of trying to BS a new icon up.
So, while I think the Church of Azor is entirely likely, I don't think it's genesis will be from the synthesis you suggest. If anything, I don't think the bureacracy needed much of a push to turn redundancy into holy ritual, and I could very much see the Arresters effectively becoming something akin to the Street Judges of Judge Dredd, albeit probably less... inherently lethal.

Quote:
:u::b:: House Dimir is gone... but House Dimir never existed in the first place, did it? The way I see it, House Dimir would become one of the new Guilds, but with absolutely no continuity with its former incarnation. The name and climate of secrecy are taken up by what we know in Canon as the "Gateless". Essentially, the Dimir become something like the ending of V for Vendetta. Anyone, driven to crime and forced into the shadows by what they see as the ills of Ravnican society, can unfetter themselves from their normal morals, paint an eye-spider on a carefully chosen wall, and start slitting throats. And every time somebody does, even if they had no ties to anyone, the idea of House Dimir grows stronger. By the time it's Maze Running time, there is an informal "House Dimir", those who have taken up the banner of Ravnica's phantoms, the best and brightest of the lot coordinating with each other to run the black markets... and punish those who the law won't touch, because nobody is above a knife in the dark. Thus, when the dust settles House Dimir is once again recorded among the ten Guilds.
In this regard, I'm... genuinely not sure. Part of me kind of likes the idea of having a totally clean break, and in part because I could see any small amount of the resources that Duskmantle once commanded having been... commandeered, either by the Ochran Assassins or by the Infinite Consortium. While I do like the concept of the Gateless adopting a counter culture based in the House that Never Was, I just don't see the organization necessary among the concept to actually field, not least because it would mean becoming discreet.
I could very much see the symbols gaining new meaning, but I don't see them putting a strong enough front to make it to the Maze. I like the idea of having all this playing in the background though. Which is how I would imagine they'd like it as well.

Quote:
:r::b: The Cult of Rakdos has been having a good time. Their natural checks, the Boros and Azorius, have been erased, and while the carnival cult is not afforded the mystical protection it once was... they're also pretty badass, what with the demons and psychopaths and all. In all honesty, they're probably one of the biggest reasons why anybody would want the return of the Guild era, when at least somebody kept the Rakdos in line. Naturally, this means that The Cult of Rakdos has an easy path back to Guild status.
I could imagine the good times rolling on for them, but there is one hiccup that definitely comes up. Last time we saw Rakdos, that big bastard was braindead after tangling too hard with the jelly monster.
Without any real centerpiece, I could see the cult keeping going, but I almost see the lack of a central authority as a strength and a weakness as the guild itself is shattered beyond repair and now we just have a roaming band of psychopaths causing mayhem. So... I don't think they make it to the Maze. I don't think we end up with enough Exava when we have too many Massacre Girls.

Quote:
:g::w:: The Selesnya were rather thoroughly dismantled, as you say. Honestly, the power vacuum here is nearly total. Something would fill in the gap, but I don't think it's predicated on the old guilds. It's possible that as of the start of the Dragon's Maze trial, there's no strong power base backing a contender in this philosophical bracket, and that the guild comes together AFTER a new parun has been raised up, not backing a Parun-to-be or their champion. The logical choice for the new faction leader, who is saddled with founding a faction because they didn't want somebody bad to cross the finish line, would be Emmara Tandris, since she's a known character in the right color bracket with only tenuous ties to the philosophy and order of the Canon Selesnya (She's one of them technically, but she never feels like she really belongs to the same brainwashing vibe as Trostani or the old Conclave), but while I'll pencil in The Tandris Ministry I'd be interested in other options.
So, I don't see this one being a thing.
I think Emmara, or the one we knew from Agents of Artifice, wouldn't want anything to do with any of this. I don't even think she's interested in establishing anything in the way of a religious uprising, because honestly, she seemed perfectly happy to play the noble and had little cares about the common folk.
On the opposite end of the concept, I think the Gateless are the real choice here, with the earthy kind of hard working common man being one of the primary aspects, and the collectivist nature of both white and green being the biggest rallying point. While I will say I HATE losing out on the aesthetic, because that's some good churchiness, I think the Gateless are most likely here. Of course, once they actually win their place, that.... kind of turns in on itself. For the moment, I would probably play off the Urbis name. And hell, this gives us a rise to angels to fill that, because when we get to the Boros, we aren't getting any new Firemanes.

Quote:
:w::b:: So, the Orzhov went and had a little schism. Some saw strength in "going straight" and melded with the Azorius to form the Church of Azor. But what about the members of the Ghost Council and their power base that were dyed-in-the-wool crooked? Some would probably do their damnedest to maintain the Church of Deals, but Orzhova's star has fallen, and what precious gold they have is waning. The smart ones, however, looked for new allies sufficiently dark for their tastes and sufficiently powerful to bring something to the table. They found one of the elements of old Ravnica that was tragically never followed up on, Agryem. There's a whole world of ghosts brought in concord with Ravnica, opening new worlds for the connection between the living and the dead. This ultimately creates The Agryem Spiritualists, a union of the departed (including many members of the old Ozbedat, and likely Szadek as well wrangling his army of ghosts into the alliance), with their mortal members being mediums, channelers, exorcists, and other types with the proper connection to deal with everything spooky, giving the Spiritualists a very clean and recognizable look and feel with their effective seances.
I think the Church of Deals would shed all illusions, and with competition from the Church of Azor, I have a hard time seeing them not shucking off the religious guise altogether. Unfortunately, that's some really really really good visuals we'd be losing, because DAMN they had them some style, but as I see it, the strength of the Orzhov come not from the religious ostentation, but straight up their Patriarchy. In a literal sense.
An Undying Patriarchy with enough influence and money to do whatever the hell they want. After a fashion, I actually think this is what we end up with in place of House Dimir as they abandon the white pretense and just go all in on what they're good at. I mean, after all, the remnants of House Dimir would likely only be undead creatures like the supposed Necrosages. Hell, Szadek managed to become a ghost, so there's every reason to believe the Ghost Council would make a seat for him.
So... House Orzhov, anyone?

Quote:
:r::w:: As mentioned, the Boros broke down a good deal, a lot of them fracturing off into PMCs and mercenary enclaves. Others would have kept up "the good fight", trying to keep Ravnica's streets clean and some semblance of justice enforced during the tumultuous transition period. It's likely they would have been despised by many for a good deal of this time, because there was little way to tell between an ex-Legion Don Quixote trying to maintain the chivalry and honor of a vanished order, and an ex-Legion Thug using whatever weight his blood-stained badge has left to bully those around him. Ultimately, pulling together a true new Boros would have fallen to exactly one Ravnican: Feather, last of the Firemane and a solitary light in the darkness (Aurelia who?). Feather, once disgraced and now alone, would put a high stock on honor, and never abandoning the right path no matter how hard it became. To that end, she would have led something of a crusade, those loyal to her and her ideals against the thugs and mercenaries who would stain the Boros legacy with their misdeeds. Over time, while a lot of former officers remained martial scumbags, the other shards dropped the Boros name and iconography. Feather's Bosos, without the Guildpact, could never reclaim its former glory, especially not on scale, but that might have been turned to their advantage as they came to be made up of firm believers -- devout, honorable... chivalrous. They re-emerge styled as The Knightly Order of Boros.

I'll... actually disagree. I think Feather, while she makes an excellent figurehead, the real person left holding all the workings together would be the Ghost of Agrus Kos. (I'm getting too old for this....)
Unfortunatley, I think the Boros are simply too splintered to see a new surge. I think the remnants of the ones who are actually committed to the law would probably end up defecting to the Arresters of the Azorius Church. Sadly, I think Feather ends up retiring and something new has to find its place with the faction, since the legitimacy of the law lands with the Azorius Church instead of anything like the Wojeks... and honestly, the Boros Legion as a whole just... doesn't have much of a point. It's a standing army for nothing.

Quote:
:u::r: I will venture fairly little about the Izzet league, mostly because I think a) of all the "look and feel" of the guilds, the Izzet were perhaps most prime to what Ravnica was and is -- a eucmenopolis demands a lot of techist infrastructure; and b) I think we may still need the old lizard. Thus, I posit that Niv Mizzet returned yet again after ducking out of his Nephilim fight and fairly easily re-gathered his cult of personality and mad science. The Izzet League had a hiccup there, but it's alive and well.
For the record, I agree, but I also want to accentuate one other thing. Niv Mizzet OWNS most of Ravnica. Not even the Orzhov. Niv is the single richest thing on the world. The Izzet League came through all of this without any issue, I'm sure.

_________________
At twilight's end, the shadow's crossed / a new world birthed, the elder lost.
Yet on the morn we wake to find / that mem'ry left so far behind.
To deafened ears we ask, unseen / "Which is life and which the dream?"


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jun 04, 2023 3:29 am 
Offline
YMtC Pro Tour Champion
User avatar

Joined: Sep 22, 2013
Posts: 14370
So from that we have the following

:w::u:: Church of Azor
:u::b:: House Orzhova (Secularized Orzhov plus Szadek's Agryem)
:b::r:: (Open Seat)
:r::g:: Tin Street Gang
:g::w:: Urbis Council (Collectivist gateless, with Angels)
:w::b:: (Open Seat)
:w::r:: (Open Seat)
:u::r:: Izzet League
:u::g:: Deep Clades
:b::g:: Golgari Swarm

So, broadly we have a legalist church, undead plutocrats, goblin mafia, a well-meaning HOA packing heat, the Izzet, the Deep Ones, and the Golgari. For now, we have two guilds representing the unfortunate souls of Ravnica (in their own, skewed ways both the Golgari and Krenko) and two representing the formerly Gateless masses (Urbis for the... not rich but more middle class in terms of the vibe I'm seeing. Krenko for the poor). It's a pretty good spread.

We also have three open seats making up the :w::b::r: triad.

So, I'm going to stream of consciousness a bit and spin off a few details that might inform something that emerges

The Great Famine
The Simic and Selesnya were the two most totally wrecked guilds. They were also the guilds who actually kept the megacity of Ravnica fed. I don't think the level heads that took the rains were so foolish as to have an immediate catastrophic famine... but insecurity in food production almost certainly caused one to happen between Dissension and now. Likely, the Urbis got a huge boost and made a mark for themselves pulling Ravnica out of that disaster by helping re-man abandoned Selesnya infrastructure and work out distribution. But what else might be birthed from this? There certainly would have been death and a great deal of social unrest; when there's not enough food to go around. On the whole... yeah, I think this is just the Urbis. the event likely helped the Golgari stay alive (since they also have a huge place in food infrastructure) and likely pushed the fragmentation and downfall of the Rakdos as an organized group, but I don't think it would be our source.

The Cult of Yore
Five Nephilim awoke in Guildpact, the objects of worship for a non-guild-aligned group. The Nephilim gained great power absorbing it from other beings and rampaged as the strange alien gods that they were. They were all defeated... but the Nephilim are NOT Legendary Creatures, and even the next set had cards referencing them as a concept. Since construction in Utvara was able to awaken Nephilim, I have a hard time imagining that no more were freed from their ancient prisons in the intervening time, without guidance from the Guildpact to avoid them. These emergences may not have been so devastating as the one in Guildpact, but the Nephilim could very well be a present force in modern Ravnica.

The Cult of Yore sees the Nephilim of symbols of a transcendent truth: that reality is too great and terrible to understand. The Cult of Yore also reviled the guildpact and, in secrecy, maintained texts and information dating to before its foundation. If the Cult of Yore has the insider truth on the foundation of the Guildpact... they might also know about its failsafe in the Maze. If they can't disrupt that and prevent the return of a Guildpact... they might choose to run the Maze themselves to enshrine their order as an eternal opposition to the "False Gods" of the Guilds.

Options
a) The Cult of Yore takes the :r::b: slot. They're better organized and more philosophically guided than the Rakdos, they'll win the maze run over whatever the demon cultists can scrape together.
b) The Cult of Yore takes the :u::b: slot. The undead plutocrats of the former Orzhov retain :w::b: as their alignment even with bringing Szadek into the council and ditching their religious trappings.
c) The Cult of Yore does not establish itself as a Guild

Personally I favor a. Red/Black was going to be a hard one since it's not a very organization-friendly color combo, but it does theoretically fit the Yore precepts.


Who actually rules Ravnica?
It's hard for me to believe that plane-level government would cease to exist without the Guilds. It's possible, and nobody's leaving it to the Azorius with naught but an "under new management" sign, but I feel it more likely that there would be at least some attempt to create a structure with jurisdiction similar to that of the old Senate or even (nonmagically) the Guildpact as a whole. Niv and the Obzedat are both poised to have good runs, or at least a lot of say in the matter, but I also think said forces are smart enough to not try to rule the whole place themselves when the situation is volatile. Maybe they take over some time, when they can bloody hold it, but not right away. Getting back to the Famine, I feel like that would have lead to the collapse of at least one interim government. Perhaps that's when the top level really did cease, but then what was the interim government like?

I feel like I'm barking up the wrong tree here.

Unused Themes
Azor: Lawful, Religious
Orzhova: Wealthy, Death
Yore: Opposition, Religious
Tin Street: Poor, Criminal, Collective
Urbis: Lawful, Collective
Izzet: Scientific
Deep Clades: Alien
Golgari: Poor, Death

What does that leave for the "White plus enemy" pairings? Well, I think that there should probably be something that would flag as "Individual" -- likely the WB pairing. Yeah, the Wealthy tag kind of implies it, but they're still not really about "the individual" on a philosophical level. It's hard to get a group that is because, ya know, group. And I'd want a new WB faction to justify ousting the old Church of Deals in that I think the new one shouldn't have the theme of "Bilking lower rank members for the benefit of the upper echelons" which a lot of "individualist" screed ends up turning into when worked into factions like this.

I decided to go looking at Planescape and its factions. After all, there are (more than) fifteen of those, are there any bases from them that aren't covered by our current layout that want to be covered?

Athar: Anti-religious. Kind of covered by Yore as much as opposition to "the gods" goes. It WOULD kind of make Godless Shrine apt, though.
Godsmen: Everyone has divine potential -- reach it through acts of creation. This one has potential. The RW shock is Sacred Foundry which is also the headqarters of the Godsmen. And the idea of an order of smiths, architects, and engineers dedicated to reaching Heaven through forging it themselves, possibly literally? That has merit. The imagey plays very much into the Equipment theme that :r::w: has going, and there's not really anything like them. I also feel like this could be spun to support the "Individualist" ideology -- they're about self-improvement and becoming better, a personal journey from nobody to greatness that exalts skill above all else. In Ravnica, I would probably see them branching out to other blue collar trades, a non-theistic spiritual order sanctifying the idea of creation, with master craftsmen as their saints and the line that many would follow that "If you work hard you too can reach this level".
Bleak Cabal: The universe doesn't make sense, just go insane already. eeh, we have that covered in bits and pieces.
Doomguard: Everything decays, entropy is sacred. Hi, Golgari (red-black Golgari, really)
Dustmen: This is hell, you need to reach the True Death of oblivion to get out. We've got enough death stuff, thanks.
Fated: Social darwinists who take what they can and give nothing back. Feel like a secular orzhov less interesting than the one we have.
Fraternity of Order: The old Azorius Senate by any other name
Free League: Personal liberty above all else, sometimes have a hard time defining themselves as a "group". Meh, we're bouncing the Gruul.
Harmonium: "Peace and order or we will beat it into you". It's like the worst of the old Boros.
Mercykillers: The guilty must be punished... and that's about it. Again, feels vaguely boros, if darker.
Revolutionary League: Exist to overthrow the other factions and generally oppose man-made law and order. We've got Cult of Yore or Gateless-Dimir
Sign of One: Solipsists. Don't think they're needed.
Society of Sensation: Reach enlightenment by experiencing everything (and I do mean everything) yourself, what you can sense is what's important. a neat RG faction but not one we need
Transcendent Order: suborn your own ego to be one with the cadence of the multiverse. Old Selesnya, get bopped.
Xaositects: Lolrandom. I... don't think we want that.
Ring Givers: Believe in paying it forward. I like Urbis better in WG.
Sodkillers: Mercykillers, but more psycho.
Sons of Mercy: Criminal rehab, would just get folded into the Wojek forces

So yeah... I like the Sacred Foundry idea out of that, which I think can be repurposed and justified to Ravnica, as something that would arise on its own. My biggest worry is maintaining distinctness from the Izzet, but I don't think it's that much of a problem. The Izzet chase novelty and innovation, the Foundry would be all about iteration and perfection. Mechanically Izzet have always been spellslinger, Foundry would be artifacts/equipment.

What Vibes Make Sense
So our themes are...
Shiny church Cops
Rich Dead Folk
Cthulhu Cult
Gangster Gobbos
Commie HOA
Holy Smiths
Mad Scientists
Deep Ones
Garbage Men

What's missing from a wholly urbanized fantasy world, especially that could fit into :w::b:? We've got light and dark at the top and the bottom, three flavors of religion and weird outsiders. I think we want a secular group. Right now, almost all of the Shocks still feel right: only Temple Garden is off, so to an extent I do kind of want this to still feel like "Who Lives at the Godless Shrine?" which makes things tough since "Godless Shrine" is a weird idea in some senses and you could argue even the Orzhov don't quite fit it since they do have a god on paper (even if the real one was money). And, further, what makes them solvent and backed enough to run the Maze and have their existence enshrined as one of the Ten?

My brain has cycled back to the idea of the Interim Government. When the Guildpact was absolved, something that felt pretty nice was set up, but that almost cerrtainly would have dissolved in hard times. A Godless Shrine, so maybe some sort of cult figure? But a different sort of cult than Yore or the Izzet variant of personality.

And thus I had an idea: "The King of Ravnica". Probably a lot of folks tired to claim the title. Few got anywhere. But maybe one was popular enough to... attract a following. Start carving out a domain. Make of themselves a proper pretender.

Or maybe not. Maybe that's just what people WANTED.

And then I hit on the idea: The Kingsmen, or The Royalists, or The Royal Guard -- a group of individuals who believe that absolute rule is the only way to establish a better world, and who seek influence in order to carve out a throne for Ravnica and seat a single King upon it. They probably have a King Candidate Presumptive, but that individual can change. What doesn't is their belief that Ravnica needs a King. That fits perfectly in :w::b:. It justifies Godless Shrine enough to me (The King Who Will Come is no god, but the belief in that concept is close enough). It sets up a Guild that will ABSOLUTELY back Bolas come War of the Spark since the God-Pharaoh is everything they ever wanted in terms of a firm hand to lead the plane with singular vision ("A dictator’s infuriating smirk, just what the Kingsmen always wanted."), and lets us keep the WB guild the heel while feeing very different from the Orzhov in that they're just outright authoritarians.

_________________
"Enjoy your screams, Sarpadia - they will soon be muffled beneath snow and ice."

I have a blog. I review anime, and sometimes related media, with an analytical focus.

I'm a (self) published author now! You can find my books on Amazon in Paperback or ebook!
The Accursed, a standalone young adult fantasy adventure.
Witch Hunters, book one of a young adult Scifi-fantasy trilogy.


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jun 04, 2023 9:42 pm 
Offline
Member

Joined: Sep 22, 2013
Posts: 12283
Quote:
The Cult of Yore
Five Nephilim awoke in Guildpact, the objects of worship for a non-guild-aligned group. The Nephilim gained great power absorbing it from other beings and rampaged as the strange alien gods that they were. They were all defeated... but the Nephilim are NOT Legendary Creatures, and even the next set had cards referencing them as a concept. Since construction in Utvara was able to awaken Nephilim, I have a hard time imagining that no more were freed from their ancient prisons in the intervening time, without guidance from the Guildpact to avoid them. These emergences may not have been so devastating as the one in Guildpact, but the Nephilim could very well be a present force in modern Ravnica.

The Cult of Yore sees the Nephilim of symbols of a transcendent truth: that reality is too great and terrible to understand. The Cult of Yore also reviled the guildpact and, in secrecy, maintained texts and information dating to before its foundation. If the Cult of Yore has the insider truth on the foundation of the Guildpact... they might also know about its failsafe in the Maze. If they can't disrupt that and prevent the return of a Guildpact... they might choose to run the Maze themselves to enshrine their order as an eternal opposition to the "False Gods" of the Guilds.

Options
a) The Cult of Yore takes the :r::b: slot. They're better organized and more philosophically guided than the Rakdos, they'll win the maze run over whatever the demon cultists can scrape together.
b) The Cult of Yore takes the :u::b: slot. The undead plutocrats of the former Orzhov retain :w::b: as their alignment even with bringing Szadek into the council and ditching their religious trappings.
c) The Cult of Yore does not establish itself as a Guild

Personally I favor a. Red/Black was going to be a hard one since it's not a very organization-friendly color combo, but it does theoretically fit the Yore precepts.

So, while I tend to favor using older material rather than inventing newer material, in this case I think I actually have a direction that I would prefer to take it.
There is, after all, a god that made an appearance, and if we're going to pick up cults, the extremely nebulous faith of the Nephilim doesn't seem focused enough for us to really sink our efforts into.
Instead, I favor the idea of combining aspects of the Gruul with the likes of Exava from the Rakdos, those who are looking for something to worship end up finding it in the likes of Ilharg and the Old Ways.
But instead of focusing on any capacity of nature from the Gruul, instead we get what amounts to a Doomsday cult that has already started dressing appropriately for the POST apocalypse, which is where the Rakdos love of leather comes in.
So, we get what amounts to a Mad Max guild that foretells the coming doom, and their purpose in running the maze is to ensure that they have the best possible chance to be in power after the Raze Boar comes.
To what function they could serve, is, surprisingly in logistics and doomsday prepping. I think they could have a legitimate presence.
And again, it's nice to not lose the Rakdos aesthetic, though dialing it back considerably from being so harlequin.

Arguably, we could also just shift Krenko into R/B and have the Ilharg faction take up G/R.

Quote:
And then I hit on the idea: The Kingsmen, or The Royalists, or The Royal Guard -- a group of individuals who believe that absolute rule is the only way to establish a better world, and who seek influence in order to carve out a throne for Ravnica and seat a single King upon it. They probably have a King Candidate Presumptive, but that individual can change. What doesn't is their belief that Ravnica needs a King. That fits perfectly in :w::b:. It justifies Godless Shrine enough to me (The King Who Will Come is no god, but the belief in that concept is close enough). It sets up a Guild that will ABSOLUTELY back Bolas come War of the Spark since the God-Pharaoh is everything they ever wanted in terms of a firm hand to lead the plane with singular vision ("A dictator’s infuriating smirk, just what the Kingsmen always wanted."), and lets us keep the WB guild the heel while feeing very different from the Orzhov in that they're just outright authoritarians.
[/quote]
So, I think this is an ideal place to essentially have the Infinite Consortium sit with Bolas being the shadowy creature that is pulling the strings.
I mean, obviously, the doctrine will have to adapt, but I could see where the remnants of the organization could BECOME this.

_________________
At twilight's end, the shadow's crossed / a new world birthed, the elder lost.
Yet on the morn we wake to find / that mem'ry left so far behind.
To deafened ears we ask, unseen / "Which is life and which the dream?"


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jun 08, 2023 5:07 am 
Offline
YMtC Pro Tour Champion
User avatar

Joined: Sep 22, 2013
Posts: 14370
Would that mean we have the general outlay of the new 10?

:w::u: Church of Azor
:u::b: House Orzhova
:b::r: Cult of the End (Ilharg Worshippers/general apocalyptics absorbing a lot of Rakdos vibes)
:r::g: Krenko's Mob
:g::w: Urbis
:w::b: Infinite Consortium/Royalists
:w::r: Sanctified Creators
:u::r: Izzet League
:u::g: Deep Clades
:b::g: Golgari Swarm

If that's a broadly sensible list, what's next?

_________________
"Enjoy your screams, Sarpadia - they will soon be muffled beneath snow and ice."

I have a blog. I review anime, and sometimes related media, with an analytical focus.

I'm a (self) published author now! You can find my books on Amazon in Paperback or ebook!
The Accursed, a standalone young adult fantasy adventure.
Witch Hunters, book one of a young adult Scifi-fantasy trilogy.


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jun 08, 2023 11:22 pm 
Offline
Member

Joined: Sep 22, 2013
Posts: 12283
Would that mean we have the general outlay of the new 10?

:w::u: Church of Azor
:u::b: House Orzhova
:b::r: Cult of the End (Ilharg Worshippers/general apocalyptics absorbing a lot of Rakdos vibes)
:r::g: Krenko's Mob
:g::w: Urbis
:w::b: Infinite Consortium/Royalists
:w::r: Sanctified Creators
:u::r: Izzet League
:u::g: Deep Clades
:b::g: Golgari Swarm

If that's a broadly sensible list, what's next?


Next would be scattering about the old and the new status quo over the course of 2 sets, with the walkers each getting kind of their own feature into it, probably with small little short stories outlining their motivations scattered over RtR and Gatecrash.

Since the thing is called Dragon's Maze, there's some BS reason we could potentially tie Ugin and Azor's alliance in early, but that might be playing too much with future knowledge, but the entire Dragon's Maze excuse for having Sarkhan here is explicitly the Dragon in the name.

The unfortunate fact of the matter is that the story itself for this block is... REALLY awful. It's stapled together in the worst possible way and since it is so heavily focused on Jace and being from that POV, removing Jace massively impacts the way the story unfolds in near totality.

There's also the awkwardness of trying to fit Kiora in with her anti-Eldrazi motivation, but again, it isn't like her appearance on Theros was actually distinctly that interesting.
Hmm... given her appearance on Temple of the False God, it makes me think that it might be worth it to have her literally set herself up in the exact same way to some ancient Ravnican merfolk prophecy and fulfill essentially the exact same function.

Beyond that, there's the distinction we would need to make about all the theoretical runners involved, especially since there are individuals in all this that represent factions that will actually LOSE the position as a Guild, effectively dooming their small little subset. Probably the smartest thing to do, rather than trying to do another round of double colors for the identity is cook up 5 mono-color legends to take part.
Hell, I feel like between Krenko and trying to wedge Yeva in somewhere as well, that's 2/5ths the job done for us.

The actual maze itself is... I mean, it's a run-fight. There's nothing interesting that really happens during it.
The finale ends up being the seal of a new Guildpact, presumably through the gates, but the mechanics ultimately boiled down to "leyline crap" so that's not like it has anything interesting to build off of either.

To be honest, at this point, it feels like the most interesting thing to do, given the absolute bare ass bones of this "plot" is maybe kick this portion of things up into YMTC and have them brainstorm up some cards for contests.
On my end, the only thing I could think of is to string together vignettes about the characters involved.

Ultimately, it all has to solidify into its final shape to establish the new status quo on Ravnica, and so long as Bolas has his claws in there, that's as large an effect as is necessary for literally anything going forward for the larger story at hand.

So, with all that said, and a possible ymtc contest collaboration in the future, I think it's time I start dreaming up what is to become of Theros, next time.

(though again, absolutely any story threads someone wants to run with here for RtR, feel bloody well free to do so.)

_________________
At twilight's end, the shadow's crossed / a new world birthed, the elder lost.
Yet on the morn we wake to find / that mem'ry left so far behind.
To deafened ears we ask, unseen / "Which is life and which the dream?"


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2023 10:42 pm 
Offline
Member

Joined: Sep 22, 2013
Posts: 12283
For my part, putting aside the issues left dangling with the nebulous and unfocused plot of the Dragon's Maze race, we now come to Theros and the second major shake up that comes from the butterfly effect of switching up appearances. I have no real inclination for Elspeth to leave Innistrad at the time.
But, I hear you say, that makes things difficult, doesn't it?

Well, yes. It does.
I have two primary ways I could go about this, each with their own merits. I definitely intend to use one character regardless, but the question will come if she's better suited for a side story or trying to fit her into the narrative as our primary protagonist. If I don't then, I do have a back up plan that is... mild at best.
To begin with, we will, naturally, be keeping Xenagos in his antagonist role. As he drove the plot, this, ostensibly, sees little change in the driving force of the events. From his vantage point, nothing really changes, even should the protagonist be swapped around. Now, how the story unfolds has a much more significant impact depending on who we cast as the primary character, but as it is, the inciting incident and much of the plot wouldn't really be altered by altering who is in the driver seat.

Much to the same, Ashiok's debut here will see no alteration. Not like Ashiok played that much of a role, but nonetheless, I would hate to dismiss the character. Just a shame it's never been used to fullest effect, but... maybe Eldraine will see that change? I mean, it's hard for me to care at this point, but...

So, that's the two characters from the original run that won't be changed around, leading us now to the question of who there is to actually play the hero side of things.
Without Elspeth, there's no excuse for Ajani to pop up, though Ajani, strictly speaking, didn't show up because of Elspeth in-world during the original block, that was just a hilariously astronomically unlikely event. All the same, who is there?

I have two ideas in mind, the first definitely filling in for Kiora.
Who loves stories and has a fascination with the night sky? (Both things infamously known for in Theros)
Tamiyo will be here in a much more invested role than "the moon is silver" like as was present in Innistrad. I see her as an ideal foil for Ashiok as well, but if needs must, one could argue that she could take up the fight against Xenagos. I mean, I don't LIKE her for that role, but if the needs of the story demand it, there's little else to do for that.

That does, however, leave 2 slots, and only one of them with any character I can think to fill in for, one whose inclusion rather nettles me, as it could possibly open the dreaded retcon door.
I'm talking about the hero taking up the mantle opposing Xenagos being Gideon. Since he didn't turn up for RtR, he's due for his appearance, and... if we do aknowledge Gideon as a Theros native, it gives him a reason to be here to start with, unrelated in any capacity to the Eldrazi, which I'm not sure if he's even involved with at this time.

The last, replacing Ajani, would most comfortably be Chandra, if we go with Gideon.

But, let me know what you think about the walker spread as it stands proposed now. Once I have some discourse, I can decide how the story would best proceed or if any alterations would be necessary to how everything rolls out.

_________________
At twilight's end, the shadow's crossed / a new world birthed, the elder lost.
Yet on the morn we wake to find / that mem'ry left so far behind.
To deafened ears we ask, unseen / "Which is life and which the dream?"


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jun 11, 2023 12:09 am 
Offline
Member

Joined: Jan 13, 2014
Posts: 211
Quote:
That does, however, leave 2 slots, and only one of them with any character I can think to fill in for, one whose inclusion rather nettles me, as it could possibly open the dreaded retcon door.
How so? Are you referring to Gideon being a Theros native as a retcon or something else? The Creative team knew Gideon was a Theran native as far back as Journey into Nyx, at least.


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jun 11, 2023 8:27 pm 
Offline
Member

Joined: Sep 22, 2013
Posts: 12283
VLW wrote:
Quote:
That does, however, leave 2 slots, and only one of them with any character I can think to fill in for, one whose inclusion rather nettles me, as it could possibly open the dreaded retcon door.
How so? Are you referring to Gideon being a Theros native as a retcon or something else? The Creative team knew Gideon was a Theran native as far back as Journey into Nyx, at least.

Yes, that was a retcon, and more so it had a visual effect than any larger contradictory nature, though there are a lot of smaller details from the Purifying Fire that don't mesh with a Theros upbringing (heck, there are aspects of the origins stories that directly clash with parts of Theros's worldbuilding)

All the same, the Origins stories are, for the most part, unwelcome here. The only real exceptions I'm making to that are Jace and Liliana, since there was so much less known or it more or less didn't conflict with the old information we knew.

_________________
At twilight's end, the shadow's crossed / a new world birthed, the elder lost.
Yet on the morn we wake to find / that mem'ry left so far behind.
To deafened ears we ask, unseen / "Which is life and which the dream?"


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jun 12, 2023 12:56 am 
Offline
Member

Joined: Sep 22, 2013
Posts: 12283
Our story for Theros begins... On Regatha.
Tired of trying to chase Chandra and usually being a step behind, Gideon decides the only reasonable thing to do is go to Keral Keep and wait for her. Mother Luti (totally not Jaya) is welcoming enough to him to let him stay while Chandra's away, but eventually things become tense when Gideon is confronted why he didn't come sooner. There, we get some insight about how he feels about the fall out of the Order of Heliud falling apart, and what's more, we reiterate the multiversal nature of that particular organization... and Jaya weedles Gideon into admitting he knows more than he lets on. Including the fact that "Heliud" is mispronounced, something he would know about, wouldn't he Kytheon? (Not something Jaya knows, just something Gideon knows)

When faced with those facts, he admits that, yes, he knows more and that Heliod is from his homeworld. We don't have any of this nonsense about Erebos's escaped giant, or any of what went on with Krusor and everything involving Origins. Jaya pretty much tells him that he needs to revisit Theros and put his ghosts to rest and she'll point Chandra in his direction the next time she shows up.

So, we get Gideon returning to Theros and finding himself a stranger in a familiar land now.

Unbeknownst to him, Xenagos has been nudging along events towards his hopeful apotheosis, and part of that plan involved Polukranos. We get the hydra's assault, but Gideon and his sural instead take up the challenge. I am... not entirely sure how that encounter plays out other than Polukranos ends up popped into the sky.

From here, Gideon is instantly celebrated as a hero, and for a change, he has to deal with the celebrity of his actions instead of being unsung. Having been from Akros, he eventually ends up there as a guest of the king and queen, just in time for Xenagos to get the Minotaurs to attack, just as planned. Very little changes in how this all plays out, with Gideon instead being frontline and just tanking the holy hell out of everything, but one martial walker is pretty much any other martial walker in a battle rather than a fight, and we get a reenactment of Desperate Stand with the man himself.
Someone starts putting 2 and 2 together and Gideon is revealed to have been Kytheon.

As of the moment, you might note that Heliod is notably absent from this plot line thus far. Well.... there's not a lot of reason that I've seen for Gideon to be named Sun's Champion, yet at least.

The huge celebratory bacchanal, not just for the victory over the minotaurs, but also the return of the (now) legendary Kytheon escalates massively, and the true puppet master is revealed as Xenagos, as all that revelatory revelry is channeled into his apotheosis. This, naturally, immediately freaks the gods out and they throw a massive conniption fit. Gideon, knowing something has to be done, asks if there are any sages that might know the next step. As it so happens, there is, and he's pointed towards the mysterious woman they call the Sky Sage, for her amazing story telling abilities and the weird way Nyx seems to respond to them.

This is, as you might guess, Tamiyo. And in a similar way to Ashiok, her stories have been having... unforeseen consequences on Nyx itself, and oddities are cropping up around her. So much so, that had Xenagos not pulled his fast one, undoubtedly one of the gods would have taken umbrage with someone injecting foreign sagas and legends into the weft of Nyx and CREATING enchantment creatures the likes that Theros has never seen. She is located in Meletis and Gideon next heads there.

At this point, the contrivance of Ajani being around would have injected itself into the story, so, this is as good a reason as any to have Chandra show up, having been harangued by Jaya to actually go find Gideon. Gideon, being a home town guy, has had his exploits spread far and wide, and Chandra ends up meeting him shortly before they arrive to confer with the Tamiyo. Suffice to say, the fact that she is VERY much a planeswalker becomes apparent to the both of them, despite never having been to Kamigawa, they can tell she's not from around here.

And in this moment, I see some heavy exposition dump coming into play about what Tamiyo has learned about the nature of Nyx, as well as who she is and what she does.

With all of that laid out, I'm going to take a break, and when we return, possibly with interjections from the crowd, we'll see how our party fairs as they Journey into Nyx.

_________________
At twilight's end, the shadow's crossed / a new world birthed, the elder lost.
Yet on the morn we wake to find / that mem'ry left so far behind.
To deafened ears we ask, unseen / "Which is life and which the dream?"


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 30 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group