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Let's talk about the Khans
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Author:  epochtunicate [ Sat Sep 16, 2017 9:24 am ]
Post subject:  Let's talk about the Khans
I didn't read a ton of the Tarkir block story (ravenoftheblack would probably consider that a good thing) so I may just be ignorant on this topic, but I have a really hard time seeing most of the enemy colors supposedly present in the 5 khans. What's :r: about narset? Besides being a Naga, what's :g: about Sidisi? What's :b: about Anafenza? (for that matter, what's :g: about anafenza?) Zurgo I can kinda see and Surrak I know literally nothing about other than some of his accomplishments.

And as long as we're talking about them, who's your favorite and least favorite Khan(s) and why?
Author:  LilyStorm [ Sat Sep 16, 2017 9:28 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Let's talk about the Khans
Cumberbatch
Author:  Heartless Hidetsugu [ Sat Sep 16, 2017 10:42 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Let's talk about the Khans
Surrak and Sidisi were my favorites. Surrak because Temur's the clan that's my best fit. Sidisi because the Sultai had interesting worldbuilding. Next would be the Jeskai, then Abzan, the Mardu coming in dead last. They needed something more, something in the realm of black or white to direct their rabid red drive for marauding.
Author:  preadatordetector [ Sat Sep 16, 2017 10:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Let's talk about the Khans
Zurgo's :b::w: nature is done through the totalitarian nature of the Mardu. The primary focus to their activities and strategy is :r:, but because of :w: and :b: corrupting the faction, they have problems on a social level where they have a structure that only very ambitious people dare to challenge, and therefore the ambitious people keep the structure for that it secures their power. The only time that the Mardu as a whole rebel against this structure was when Zurgo, blinded by rage, forced his horde to do something it doesn't benefit off of doing nor wants to do. Thus, members of the horde rebelled, and Zurgo knows that his power is gone. It might be that if the timeline was allowed to exist longer and Zurgo was killed by Sarkhan, the Mardu might have seen the error in this way and changed their act.

In fact, it would be interesting to see Narset try and make an artificial plane from the old timeline as a science experiment.

The Sultai feel like a failure. I personally feel bad about them for reasons I won't disclose, but it feels like a mistake I made myself. Anyways, there's a huge difference in the Sultai's territory and Silumgar's. Silumgar destroyed all of the woodlands that surrounded the Sultai's territory, while the Sultai themselves never did such a thing, and in fact had several holy sites, such as Silumgar's skull. No, really. It would be sweet to see a human rise up in the ranks of the Sultai without the use of a rakshasa but instead through using their own unaugmented brain.

The Abzan's ambitious nature is weak. They have a predetermination complex with their form of necromancy raising the spirits of their ancestors. If an Abzan doesn't have an ancestor to commune with, that citizen would normally be at a disadvantage. Finally there's a person called Reyhan, which rebelled against the idea of surrendering to the dragons, and surrendering to someone petty enough to kill a group of people just because they commune with the dead. All things considered though, this faction failed to capture some of the colors because of the immense focus on :w:, and even splashed into :r: with Reyhan. All dark magic in the Abzan appear as undercurrents.

Narset herself doesn't capture the Jeskai's zealotry, but it may seem that she is pretty lax about making judgement on others. Or reading the laws of the Jeskai, because some of them are pretty stupidly designed. Anyways, while the Jeskai's internal structure is about accumulating knowledge, their foreign policy is militaristic. Take what happened to Tasigur for example. Narset probably didn't know what Tasigur is doing, or doesn't care.

Finally, the Temur, on losing to Atarka, lost their elementalist abilities. Information is also a major part of their society, and that was lost when Atarka came around. Their red element comes from their relationship with the Sultai. Many Temur were once slaves of sultai rule. Now, in the new timeline, they remain slaves. I would like to see some kind of rebellion against Atarka's hedonistic activities and anti-intellectualism.
Author:  astarael7 [ Sat Sep 16, 2017 12:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Let's talk about the Khans
The Khans are their three colors because they are the leaders of their three-colored factions. That's it. (Three-colored design is hard.)
Author:  epochtunicate [ Sat Sep 16, 2017 2:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Let's talk about the Khans
LilyStorm wrote:
Cumberbatch


me_irl

my favorite khan is probably Sidisi, even though I'm a very temur person. I just enjoyed really enjoyed the flavor texts where she's quoted or mentioned. Great flavor surrounding her. Least favorite is Zurgo because **** that guy.
Author:  Heartless Hidetsugu [ Sat Sep 16, 2017 2:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Let's talk about the Khans
The lead mobster from the first John Wick movie, Vigo Tarasov, would be a good model for the ideal Mardu: he's got a violent streak, fiercely loved his son (both red), but reigns it all in by maintaining control of New York's Russian crime syndicate (white/black).

I'd like to see a human khan rise up through the Sultai ranks using rakshasa, but also being clever enough to 'pawn off' the demonic contract's downsides on someone else...or simply outwitting the demon and having it destroyed once its usefulness is at an end.
Author:  Heliosphoros [ Sat Sep 16, 2017 3:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Let's talk about the Khans
Narset was a pretty person in the old timeline, being creative and emotional as she was. Definitely also a lot more lax and less obsessive than her true timeline self.
Author:  preadatordetector [ Sat Sep 16, 2017 3:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Let's talk about the Khans
Heartless Hidetsugu wrote:
Zurgo: he's got a violent streak (red), but reigns it all in by maintaining control of Tarkir's crime syndicate (white/black).

All things considered...

Heartless Hidetsugu wrote:
I'd like to see a human khan rise up through the Sultai ranks using rakshasa, but also being clever enough to 'pawn off' the demonic contract's downsides on someone else...or simply outwitting the demon and having it destroyed once its usefulness is at an end.

I think that was what Tasigur's endgame was supposed to be but it appears that's really hard to do.
Author:  epochtunicate [ Mon Sep 18, 2017 3:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Let's talk about the Khans
Heliosphoros wrote:
Narset was a pretty person in the old timeline, being creative and emotional as she was. Definitely also a lot more lax and less obsessive than her true timeline self.


That does indeed make sense. The change between old timeline and new definitely seemed to be for the worse, though I guess that was true for all the khans. I feel pretty bad for her :(

I still have a hard time seeing sidisi as green
Author:  Empyreal [ Tue Sep 19, 2017 5:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Let's talk about the Khans
epochtunicate wrote:
Heliosphoros wrote:
Narset was a pretty person in the old timeline, being creative and emotional as she was. Definitely also a lot more lax and less obsessive than her true timeline self.


That does indeed make sense. The change between old timeline and new definitely seemed to be for the worse, though I guess that was true for all the khans. I feel pretty bad for her :(

I still have a hard time seeing sidisi as green


I see Sidisi as green in the "Survival of the strongest/cleverest" and a sort of "Naga are supreme and better because we're like Dragons - we're born better" mentality.

I loved the Jeskai as a clan, to be honest. I liked they had a good blend of discipline and passion. I liked Narset because, to me, she represented both acceptance and struggle with this colour wedge. She was dedicated to her clan, going so far as to not truly ascend because she had to be there for them, but at the same time she wasn't content in that role and wanted her own freedom. Her uneasy balance was hidden beneath a calm facade, which I think was a good show of balancing her :w: and :r: sides. It was noble that she was willing to sacrifice her own freedom for the safety and prosperity of her clan, and showed she was a good leader.

I liked the Temur as a clan. The whole spiritual/mystic vibe really worked for me.

I least liked the Mardu and the Sultai. Both of these factions felt like if they actually "won" then they'd die off shortly thereafter. The Mardu don't really seem to produce anything, they just survive by raiding. While kind of cool, the whole "kill, smash, grab" part got old for me. I didn't see their :w: so much either beyond a few aspects. What would they do if they won? If they kill every Abzan, burn the Jeskai monasteries, loot the Sultai palaces, and scatter the Temur? They don't know how to create something. Would they eventually turn to farming?

And I just disliked the Sultai because they were just gross decadence. They were the bounty of the jungles and every secret, person, and treasure that could be stolen and hoarded away. I think they were done well but I didn't like them personally, so successful villains.
Author:  Heliosphoros [ Wed Sep 20, 2017 4:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Let's talk about the Khans
The Sultai are mostly due to their caste system, which the Silumgar have discarded. It's hard to notice, and I wish it was explored in more detail, but of course they all have to be ridiculous cartoon villains.
Author:  Empyreal [ Wed Sep 20, 2017 8:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Let's talk about the Khans
Heliosphoros wrote:
The Sultai are mostly due to their caste system, which the Silumgar have discarded. It's hard to notice, and I wish it was explored in more detail, but of course they all have to be ridiculous cartoon villains.


It's funny. I would've linked a caste system more with white and their obsession with order while green always gave me a "food chain" vibe.

Edit: Although I suppose they're very similar when applied to a society kind of situation where people serve roles.
Author:  Heliosphoros [ Wed Sep 20, 2017 9:31 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Let's talk about the Khans
takes a more passive approach by simply stating that people have their place. The Sultai kind of push it by deliberately enforcing it, but I guess they don't have any moral justifications beyond "it just is, 'kay?"
Author:  epochtunicate [ Wed Sep 20, 2017 7:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Let's talk about the Khans
Heirarchy is :w:, roles and being more or less stuck in them is :g:. Both are usually involved in real-life caste systems.
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