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PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2016 9:45 am 
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An odd ethical question.
I mean, their goal is to spread Phyrexia, and (correct me if i'm wrong) being a new phyrexian means being immortal, ethernally happy, and in an absolute harmony with your kind (may take forms like BDSM or worse, but they don't complain). Along with things like not needing food etc.
wants peace, unity, and an end to suffering - white (and not only white) Phyrexians got it.
wants perfection and knowledge - blue Phyrexians do nothing but pursuit both.
wants to have power and abuse it - black Phyrexians ethernally struggle for power and abuse each other.
wants freedom to do anything it wants - Phyrexia just tells you what it is ( to spread immortality etc, see above )
wants harmony - see above.

I feel that they could've convert entire planes just by peacefully offering their Oil, and explaining it's benefits.

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Last edited by UselessCommon on Tue Oct 18, 2016 1:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2016 10:12 am 
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Well, let's consider how they offered each of their solutions to decide how good or evil they were....

By Faction:
- Offered complete subjugation and obliteration of the self. Basically wanted your sun-bleached bones to combine with twisted muscle and porcelain while destroying any bit of what made you...you. In a sense they offered you kill you so that your parts could join a cult of personality in worship to their praetor.

- Offers you a chance to join them in tearing the world and everything in it apart to see how it ticks, with the understanding that, at some point, you'll most likely be torn apart as well. In fact, that's definitely going to happen first...and it will hurt...a lot. And then it may happen again later if there is useful information to be gained in taking you apart again after you've done some stuff after being taken apart the first time. Hope you like being dissected.

- Offers you a chance to join in a giant circle of abuse? Why would anyone want that?

- Offers to mostly leave you alone. It is by far the most reasonable of the factions. As long as you have no qualms about its freedoms to occasionally eat, burn, or re-purpose you on a whim, everything should work out fine. (But not for you. You'll be eaten, burned, and/or converted into a metally monster.)

- Offers you survival of the fittest on steroids. You, as a person, are not the fittest. And even if you were the fittest person, you'll still be near the bottom of the food chain. You won't be re-purposed; you'll be dinner. That's what is offered. Your death. In the jaws of a much fitter monster.

There's really no cherry coating Phyrexia.

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You fell victim to one of the classic blunders - The most famous of which is "never get involved in an thread with GM_Champion" - but only slightly less well-known is this: "Never go in against AzureShade when card design is on the line!"


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2016 10:21 am 
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I really like how you look at the phyrexians. i've enjoyed using the phyrexian type cards they always seem to work really well together. What i believe that Wizards should do is bring back the idea of phyrexian "corruption" instead of this eldrazi junk. Phyrexia actually has a point in their destruction and spread whilst the Eldrazi have no plan, they just destroy. OR MAYBE THEY SHOULD HAVE PHYREXIA CORRUPT THE ELDRAZI!!!!!!!!!!! that would be such a cool idea, basically making the phyrexian plan unstoppable. It would push the people and races of the multiverse to the point of being the "Underdogs". Wow that got way off topic lol if i had a dollar for every time i got distracted i'd be a billionaire. Haha your point of view is extremely valid, however i disagree with the values being 100% moral. Their point of view is showing that they want universal harmony, but that would be immoral due to the removal of personal choice. Yes, however it would remove pain, war, and such. But maintaining personal choice to our very selfish humanoid race, is more important to us. I'm pretty sure if you ask any person, they would be willing to keep war, pain and the such to maintain their choice in everyday life. I'm not saying your point is invalid, i am just saying i disagree due to the extremity of the humanoid selfishness. It would be a "Perfect" world but it would not be morale.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2016 10:28 am 
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OR MAYBE THEY SHOULD HAVE PHYREXIA CORRUPT THE ELDRAZI!!!!!!!!!!! that would be such a cool idea, basically making the phyrexian plan unstoppable.
I'm just going to toss out there that the idea of Phyrexia infecting Eldrazi is analogous to a virus infecting a forest fire.

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You fell victim to one of the classic blunders - The most famous of which is "never get involved in an thread with GM_Champion" - but only slightly less well-known is this: "Never go in against AzureShade when card design is on the line!"


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2016 10:37 am 
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AzureShade wrote:
OR MAYBE THEY SHOULD HAVE PHYREXIA CORRUPT THE ELDRAZI!!!!!!!!!!! that would be such a cool idea, basically making the phyrexian plan unstoppable.
I'm just going to toss out there that the idea of Phyrexia infecting Eldrazi is analogous to a virus infecting a forest fire.

I just feel the idea would give Wizards a good story line to work with along with some pretty damn unique cards and ideas to run with. The thought of such a corrupt race as the phyrexians taking over the extremely destructive force as the eldrazi would create an incredible storyline of multi-planar war, phyrexia would gain the ability to traverse the planes. I'm just saying that it's a great idea, there is probably nothing that could back be down from this.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2016 10:44 am 
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I consider myself pretty transhumanist and some of the things you mention are very important to me. Immortality and happiness being the big ones.

Phyrexia definitely tackles the challenges in the wrong way. Rewriting someone's values is pretty damn evil in the first place, and Phyrexia doesn't give you much choice in the matter. Changing your values to be completely incompatible with human values also isn't something that most humans (or Vedalken, etc.) would choose. I don't think a life of happiness is worth it if all my happiness stems from flaying others. I also don't think wireheading is a good idea.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2016 11:12 am 
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I live by the creedo "Do whatever you want so long as you're not breaking the law." Phyrexia steps on that with a "you're getting flayed and compleated whether you like it or not" mentality.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2016 11:39 am 
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I probably wouldn't want to join their forces willingly.
But only because i am wireheaded by my biochemistry, and society.
And those wires makes me suffer more than rejoyce.

If you are , you would sacrifice yourself for a greater good and a community.
If you are , you work ( suffer ) for knowledge.
If you are , you are most likely a sadist or a masochist. (As a Phyrexian - both.)
If you are , you just do whatever you want. And do not cry if others do what they want.
If you are , you embrace your natural role - be it a predator or a prey.

First, all Phyrexians are literally 200% happy with pain. Cause they have one word for "pain" and "improvement", and "improvement" is "serving Phyrexia", and "serving Phyrexia" is "200% of happiness".

Second, we are all wireheaded allready. We also brainwash each other regullary, calling it "advertising","persuating" or "teaching".

Third, they don't change ideals - as you can see, they just take them to their logical extreme. The only evil they actually commit is taking away the choise.

That DaHedgeDuck dude is allways stealing my girl kinda got it right.

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Last edited by UselessCommon on Tue Oct 18, 2016 1:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2016 1:05 pm 
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Yxoque wrote:
I don't think a life of happiness is worth it if all my happiness stems from flaying others.

You would if all your happiness stemmed from flaying others.
Third, they don't change ideals - as you can see, the just take them to their logical extreme. The only evil they actually commit is taking away the choise.

Eldrazi wouldn't be evil either if they used their powers for art or as planes-hopping garbage bins.
But they don't. Nothing is evil if it's only done towards accepting and informed subjects.
I live by the creedo "Do whatever you want so long as you're not breaking the law." Phyrexia steps on that with a "you're getting flayed and compleated whether you like it or not" mentality.

It's probably not against the law on Mirrodin. Not anymore, at least.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2016 1:09 pm 
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But what about my thought of their goals not being evil?

Eldrazi... I don't think they can even understand "good" and "evil"

IMHO, currently, only actual EVIL global MtG villain is Bolas.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2016 1:19 pm 
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I think erasing individuality, natural diversity and its heritage is evil.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2016 1:25 pm 
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natural diversity and its heritage

Are no more than our current environment. And we alter our environment on everyday basis.

Erasing individuality is definetly evil. But the priiiiiize !!!!

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2016 1:33 pm 
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Just because we alter our environment on a daily basis doesn't make it okay to burn churches or bioengineer all of humanity into aryans, no matter how much of a anti-theistic white supremacist you are.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2016 1:34 pm 
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White supremacist i am not.
I really, really hope
OMG mown, i got chills just by thinking of it.
:eek:

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2016 2:40 pm 
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White supremacist i am not.
But guess who is.

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You fell victim to one of the classic blunders - The most famous of which is "never get involved in an thread with GM_Champion" - but only slightly less well-known is this: "Never go in against AzureShade when card design is on the line!"


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2016 2:43 pm 
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She is more like splatterpunk supremacist.
:)

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2016 2:46 pm 
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The joke is that she's white and a supremacist.

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You fell victim to one of the classic blunders - The most famous of which is "never get involved in an thread with GM_Champion" - but only slightly less well-known is this: "Never go in against AzureShade when card design is on the line!"


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2016 2:49 pm 
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Discrimination
Enchantment
White human creatures gain +1/+1
Black human creatures gain -1/-1
If you play this, screw you !!!

I do not appove discrimination. Just to be clean.

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War of the spark will have so many Planeswalkers, they won't even be planeswalking anymore.


Last edited by UselessCommon on Tue Oct 18, 2016 3:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2016 2:50 pm 
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Look, it's not like we're Invoking Prejudice here...

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You fell victim to one of the classic blunders - The most famous of which is "never get involved in an thread with GM_Champion" - but only slightly less well-known is this: "Never go in against AzureShade when card design is on the line!"


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2016 2:54 pm 
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No way !
Makes you to think a bit about White Knight and Black Knight
I wonder why they removed protection...
:D

Shade, are you a little covinced about Phyrexians now ?

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