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PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2016 10:41 am 
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I was wondering which legendary creatures from Dominaria could still be around today for all we know, and because procrastination is a powerful drive, I went ahead and made a list. I focused on characters that have cards to narrow things down a bit, with a few exceptions. Obviously, I don't think all or even most of them are still actually alive, and a lot of them probably wouldn't hold enough appeal to bring them back anyway. But as a thought experiment, I tried to list all characters that haven't been confirmed dead and that could be reasonably assumed to still be alive today due to being immortal/ageless/very long lived or having easy access to life-prolonging magic etc. I put a question mark behind the characters of whose lifespan I wasn't quite sure and that might be a bit of a stretch.

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What about the Primevals? Could they be reborn again or was that reincarnation cycle thing broken forever when they were defeated during the invasion? What do you think of the list? Are there characters you disagree with?

As an aside, there is some general uncertainty about the characters who live(d) in Jamuraa because some of them might have been phased out along with Zhalfir. That means that some that are listed here might be removed from the timestream and be for all intents and purposes dead, or it could mean that some that aren't on the list could show up again if Teferi ever manages to phase the thing back in.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 14, 2016 1:43 pm 
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Any dragon, elf, or undead; because they're fundamentally ageless.

Squee, because he's immortal.
Teferi and Jhoira, because time magic.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 14, 2016 1:44 pm 
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This is probably not as big a deal as it might be, since the current stories lean towards the idea that the mending was maybe a generation ago, tops.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 14, 2016 4:25 pm 
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Any dragon, elf, or undead; because they're fundamentally ageless.
Eh, kiiinda. For all we know, elves seem to have a lifespan of 800-ish years or something like that, which is long, but not ageless. With the undead, it depends on what kind of undead we're talking about. Vampires, sure, but I put a question mark after Bladewing the Risen for instance, because we don't know how well that Cabal necromancy preserved his corpse. It's been a long time, he might well have decayed and fallen apart even if he survived the Pits and the time rifts. And lifespans aside, we have to cross out those who got killed in the story, e.g. Rofellos.

Squee, because he's immortal.
Teferi and Jhoira, because time magic.
Well, yeah, that's why they're already on the list..?

This is probably not as big a deal as it might be, since the current stories lean towards the idea that the mending was maybe a generation ago, tops.
I was under the impression that Creative realised that doesn't really fit and moved it closer to about a hundred years. Liliana's story in Magic Origins seems to indicate that, as does an offhand comment by Ob Nixilis during BFZ block. And the Mending doesn't have much to do with it either way. Most of the characters and creatures I listed were around long before the Mending. It's not like, say, Jhoira would have even still been alive during Time Spiral if it wasn't for her slowed down aging.


Anyway, I'd be really interested to hear if anyone can fill me in on some of the questions in the OP, most of which are related to the Invasion stuff because I haven't read that yet. Like, could the Primevals ever show up again in new incarnations? Did characters like Reya Dawnbringer, Verdeloth the Ancient or Nemata, Grove Guardian actually die during the invasion? The wiki doesn't mention it, but I have learned to take the wiki with a big grain of salt...

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 14, 2016 4:36 pm 
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In broad terms, you can probably remove anything from Otaria. It was a salt blasted, literally lifeless wasteland in Time Spiral. While things like Arcanis might have split ages before that happened, Otaria was infamously isolated and I question how well the pit fighters would have survived everything leading up to and including Karona.

Between her and Chainer... things went rather spectacularly badly.

As to the legends from the Invasion... well. Death Cloud.
If they were anywhere near the front lines of Urborg, they deeeeeeeeead.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 14, 2016 4:53 pm 
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Otaria was definitely hit by quite a few nasty things and I agree the pit fighters are most likely dead. But the idea behind this list was that anyone who hasn't been confirmed dead and would have the necessary lifespan to still be around today is in. I mean, if refugees could immigrate to Otaria, then at least some people might have emigrated again when things got too crazy. Not that the pit fighters have any story sgnificance to them, but if Creative wanted to bring back any of them as an easter egg, there would be ways in which that could be explained.

I'm actually much more intrigued by the possibility of Kaervek being freed from the Amber Prison or stuff like that. And of course Jodah is probably still around, and he's the best Magic character ever.


Edit: Though now that I think about it, the idea of a cracked and weathered Jareth crawling out of the wreckage somewhere and roaming Dominaria is kinda cool. Or, you know, Arcanis showing up as a lich. Arcanis the Necropotent.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 15, 2016 1:48 am 
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Most of the people on that list are likely dead, even many of the undead. Even ageless beings like angels or elementals have had plenty of time to encounter death. Others on the list are probably not going to be born until creative decides they want to make use of them- until then it'll be nebulous.
I like the Kaervek idea. He's a powerful wizard who spent a long time trapped in amber during which period he may not have aged. Canonically, I don't know that he was ever actually freed. Scion similarly might only exist on the conceptual level- something occasionally manifested by mages rather than a creature with its own life.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 15, 2016 4:21 pm 
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I basically agree with everything you said, I just want to point out again that this is supposed to be a very inclusive list. If we returned to Dominaria and it was established that all or most of the people on the list are still around, we could definitely call BS on that. All the characters on the list together would just be silly, but each of them individually could be justified. So it's more like a pool of potential characters to bring back if Creative had a reason for doing so. And I think nobody ever called for the triumphant return of Adun Oakenshield or Mistform Ultimus, so the actual storyline appeal would effectively narrow down the list.

I like the idea of the Scion only manifesting occasionally. I kind of wonder if he/she/it took the place of the Primevals. Another cool thing about the characters I listed is that quite a few of them (including Kaervek) are basically just human spellcasters. Jhoira, Teferi and Jodah are almost certainly still around and could easily be involved in a new Dominaria based story, and if they were pitted against other wizards, we could get a lot of old school wizard battles that are at the core of MtG (even if modern stories have moved away from that for the most part). Kaervek hasn't been freed so far canonically, no. I kinda like the idea that another wizard would seek out ancient and withered Mangara to battle him over the Amber Prison and free Kaervek to ally with him.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2016 1:00 pm 
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Dominaria's main draw these days is Nostalgia, so an expansion or story set there would pretty much have to include a few oldies.

From Legends you've missed one obvious one: Nicol Bolas. Dakkon Blackblade could also still be around, being an planeswalker of sorts, if Korlash is from the future. There's also a whole bunch of dudes we know pretty much nothing about, like Angus McKenzie, Axelrod Gunnarson, Bartel Runeaxe, etc. who technically could still be alive, given we don't know when they lived.
On a meta-level though, I doubt Wizards would want any of these to return. The set Legends just feels ancient, so I would keep its legendary creatures in the past. It was already pretty odd to me when Legends II suddenly moved a whole bunch of them into Mirage era times. I would put in some references (Church of Angelfire quotes in the flavor text, Korlash traipsing around, etc.), but I wouldn't use the characters themselves, outside of Bolas.

The last known location of Kaervek's prison was in the same Mwonvuli temple that Mangara was kept in. So he's most likely outside of the time stream as well. Still, I personally really want the next Dominaria story to revolve around Teferi trying and succeeding to bring back North-western Jamuraa (at some horrible cost). That could bring him back. As well as pretty much all the Mirage/Visions legendaries. Asmira and Purraj are presumed dead, and Hivis and Zirilan retreated back into the great desert and were thus probably not phased out, but Hakin, Telim'Tor, Jabari, Rashida... they were last seen only a few years before their entire continent was phased out, so who knows.

Man, looking through all the Legends reminds me of old Phyrexia.com, where every once in a while people would compile these list of which characters were dead or were they were last seen...

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2016 1:06 pm 
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I sorta want Ob to go trolling Dominaria for a sidekick and bust Kaervek out of the Amber Prison. I think Kaervek would make a great Starscream to Ob's Megatron.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2016 11:15 am 
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Squirle wrote:
From Legends you've missed one obvious one: Nicol Bolas. Dakkon Blackblade could also still be around, being an planeswalker of sorts, if Korlash is from the future. There's also a whole bunch of dudes we know pretty much nothing about, like Angus McKenzie, Axelrod Gunnarson, Bartel Runeaxe, etc. who technically could still be alive, given we don't know when they lived.
On a meta-level though, I doubt Wizards would want any of these to return. The set Legends just feels ancient, so I would keep its legendary creatures in the past. It was already pretty odd to me when Legends II suddenly moved a whole bunch of them into Mirage era times. I would put in some references (Church of Angelfire quotes in the flavor text, Korlash traipsing around, etc.), but I wouldn't use the characters themselves, outside of Bolas.
Nah, I didn't forget Bolas and Dakkon ;). I just ignored planeswalkers because they aren't bound to Dominaria, so I also didn't list Karn or Liliana. And with Bolas, Karn and Liliana, it's not like people need to be reminded they're still around. With Dakkon, I'd assume he's probably dead unless stated otherwise because of the Mending. And what you're saying about the lifetime of some of the people from Legends was exactly my train of thought as well; suddenly revealing them to be around in modern times kinda defeats the idea behind the set. I like to think that Dakkon got killed in the Planeswalker War (that's possible for all we know, right?) and that his Blackblade was lost somewhere in Corondor until Korlash found it (or will find it).
I recently had the idea that the second coming of Gabriel Angelfire could be explained by saying he was off fighting the legions of Hell/the Pit/the Abyss/the Underworld with a host of angels. Basically some epic perpetual battle between good and evil that's going on on another level of reality without anyone on Dominaria noticing it. You know, like the thing that's alluded to in Angel of Vengeance in The Colors of Magic. Would be awesome to have him landing in New Benalia or in an iconic location like the Heroes' Monument and declare that the forces of chaos have been pushed back and there will be peace in the cosmos for a very long time until the demons strike back again. Then he'd be like "Behold! The music of the spheres is in harmony again!", make everyone hear the sound of the universe in their heads and everyone would burst into tears, prostrate themselves and worship him. No idea what could be done with him beyond that point, though :V.

Squirle wrote:
The last known location of Kaervek's prison was in the same Mwonvuli temple that Mangara was kept in. So he's most likely outside of the time stream as well.
Ah, fair enough. I re-read most of the original sources for the lore behind Mirage block recently, but that must've slipped through. Well, someone could still battle Jolrael over the Amber Prison.

Squirle wrote:
Still, I personally really want the next Dominaria story to revolve around Teferi trying and succeeding to bring back North-western Jamuraa (at some horrible cost). That could bring him back. As well as pretty much all the Mirage/Visions legendaries. Asmira and Purraj are presumed dead, and Hivis and Zirilan retreated back into the great desert and were thus probably not phased out, but Hakin, Telim'Tor, Jabari, Rashida... they were last seen only a few years before their entire continent was phased out, so who knows.
Same here, I think that has great story potential. I guess it could even carry at least two blocks' worth of story. Set one, show the surrounding areas in Jamuraa and Teferi's efforts to bring back the lost piece. Set two, the missing piece has phased back in, focus on all the old places and people that are back and on the consequences it had for the rest of Dominaria. Set three, the Zhalfir from four hundred years ago suddenly finds itself facing conflicts with the surrounding nations and peoples, a new Mirage War starts, possibly instigated by Kaervek. Set four, the war and its resolution, Teferi defeats Kaervek. Or something like that. It's not going to happen but the story material would be there.

Squirle wrote:
Man, looking through all the Legends reminds me of old Phyrexia.com, where every once in a while people would compile these list of which characters were dead or were they were last seen...
That sounds like a useful thing. At the very least, I think a list like that really speaks to the imagination and helps to see untapped potential.

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