No Goblins Allowed :: Interplanar immigration

Hey, I've been reading lots and lots of Magic novels lately. I think I finally got bit by the bug or something.

Dal (or was it the Vec? I always get those two confused) kidnapped to Rath from Dominaria

Djinns from Wildfire to Jamuraa?

Kamigawans in Madara? (or was that just Toshiro Umezawa?)

Kor from ??? to Rath? Is there evidence to support their abduction from Zendikar?

I haven't read the Mirrodin books yet. Was it stated what planes those people came from?

Baron Sengir was from... Dominaria originally?

This list is getting long. Am I wrong on anything? Am I missing anything? It's an interesting topic to me, and something we don't really do much of anymore in our worldbuilding.

(I am a Wizards of the Coast employee.)

Here's what it says about the planar rift that was torn open on Ulgrotha by the Ancients:

Spoiler

However, another part of the document suggests that this isn't the portal through which the dwarves came, because that one is said to be a naturally occuring portal:

Spoiler

Here's some more info about the gate:

Spoiler

Feroz later discovers that the plane's mana is flowing from the Baron's castle, so the strange thing about all this is that both the Dwarven Gate (which is said to be naturally occuring) and the rift fuelling Ulgrotha with mana (torn open by a planeswalker) seem to be located beneath Castle Sengir, without being identical? I'd say this probably comes from the fact that the Homelands Document was a work in progress that isn't quite free of contradictions. They probably hadn't decided on a final explanation for the portal yet. I'd say it's probably best to ignore the asssertion that the Dwarven Gate was natural and just assume it's actually the rift. It says that the dwarves emerged in the vicinity of the rift after all, so this could suggest a connection. It would also fit timeline-wise because the document says the dwarves first arrived on Ulgrotha many generations after the planeswalker battle.

Quote:

(I am a Wizards of the Coast employee.)

I feel so bad you have to do this now.

Barinellos wrote:

Quote:

(I am a Wizards of the Coast employee.)

I feel so bad you have to do this now.

I don't get why he has to do this now. It isn't like the mods here would let anyone randomly use a WotC tag like that.

Jman22 wrote:

Barinellos wrote:

I feel so bad you have to do this now.

I don't get why he has to do this now. It isn't like the mods here would let anyone randomly use a WotC tag like that.

It's company policy now that anyone interacting in the social mediacircles has to stipulate they are wotc employees.

Barinellos wrote:

Jman22 wrote:

I don't get why he has to do this now. It isn't like the mods here would let anyone randomly use a WotC tag like that.

It's company policy now that anyone interacting in the social mediacircles has to stipulate they are wotc employees.

That seems a bit moronic.

why.

Serran refugees settled in Jamuraa and Benalia

Jman22 wrote:

Barinellos wrote:

It's company policy now that anyone interacting in the social mediacircles has to stipulate they are wotc employees.

That seems a bit moronic.

why.

http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/ar ... 2016-07-22
This is pretty much all they said.

Oh yeah, Coracin. I'm reasonably certain it's a plane. Davvol had different cranial anatomy than humans, and IIRC either Coracin's days were a different length, or their years were a different length, than Dominaria's. (Note: I'm not a member of Creative. Just floating my own opinion here.)

@Moppi: There Werefrog case? When he told Brady which planeswalkers were still alive? This is just idle curiosity because I read too many Magic novels in rapid succession. I'm not planning on killing a bunch of interplanar immigrants!

(Too soon?)

@Pavor Nocturnus: Where was the Sursi-Koskun portal mentioned? That's... oddly specific.

(I am a Wizards of the Coast employee.)

I seem to remember in The Quest for Karn novel that Venser was addicted to Blinkmoth serum... that he had on a plane that wasn't Mirrodin. I'm also fairly sure he said that students used it like how athlete's use steroids. I could be wrong as I only read the novel once YEARS ago and spent most of it disliking that book.

WotC_Ethan wrote:

I'm sure it's a plane we haven't seen anywhere else, but what I was trying to say is that it's not quite clear whether that unknown plane itself is called Coracin or if it's just the name of a location on that plane.

WotC_Ethan wrote:

(Too soon?)

Here's hoping the premise of this thread is just a cover and you're secretly doing research for Return to Ulgrotha...

WotC_Ethan wrote:

@Pavor Nocturnus: Where was the Sursi-Koskun portal mentioned? That's... oddly specific.

The original source can be found here:
http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/ar ... 2007-05-08

And yes, the whole thing is oddly specific. Everyone who ever managed to dive through that gate probably died of pneumonia two days later

Though admittedly, the "appearing out of thin air" thing is more ambiguous than I remembered and might not be true. But the description kinda makes it sound like you just appear on Ulgrotha without a gate at the other end...

WotC_Ethan wrote:

(I am a Wizards of the Coast employee.)

We should turn this into a Doctor Who running gag and always respond with "Yes, we know who you are"

Edit: If you don't mind me asking, which MtG novels have you been reading lately? And which one(s) did you paricularly enjoy?

Author:	WotC_Ethan [ Sun Jul 24, 2016 12:05 pm ]
Post subject:	Interplanar immigration
Hey, I've been reading lots and lots of Magic novels lately. I think I finally got bit by the bug or something. Something that came up that interested me was interplanar immigration. Thran to Phyrexia Thran elders and goblins emigrated to Mercadia Dal (or was it the Vec? I always get those two confused) kidnapped to Rath from Dominaria Rabians founded Suq'Ata Rabians settled Fallaji territory? Djinns from Wildfire to Jamuraa? Kamigawans in Madara? (or was that just Toshiro Umezawa?) Goblins to Dominaria from ??? Kor from ??? to Rath? Is there evidence to support their abduction from Zendikar? I haven't read the Mirrodin books yet. Was it stated what planes those people came from? Dwarves settled Ulgrotha from ??? Baron Sengir was from... Dominaria originally? Serran refugees settled in Jamuraa and Benalia Soltari and Dauthi from Dominaria to the shadow zone or whatever. This list is getting long. Am I wrong on anything? Am I missing anything? It's an interesting topic to me, and something we don't really do much of anymore in our worldbuilding. (I am a Wizards of the Coast employee.)

Author:	Heliosphoros [ Sun Jul 24, 2016 2:19 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Interplanar immigration
Back when Creative liked having a more connected multiverse. Now all the planar portals are gone and planeswalkers cannot carry anyone with them, making interplanar immigration utterly impossible

Author:	Barinellos [ Sun Jul 24, 2016 3:07 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Interplanar immigration
WotC_Ethan wrote: Hey, I've been reading lots and lots of Magic novels lately. I think I finally got bit by the bug or something. This only bodes well for us. You've done such good work delivering us stuff like Feldon, so this is great. Plus, just good you're enjoying them. Quote: Dal (or was it the Vec? I always get those two confused) kidnapped to Rath from Dominaria Both, as far as we're aware. Quote: Djinns from Wildfire to Jamuraa? Apparently by way of Rabiah as well. Quote: Kamigawans in Madara? (or was that just Toshiro Umezawa?) Just Toshi, but clearly he ended up warping their culture. Quote: Kor from ??? to Rath? Is there evidence to support their abduction from Zendikar? Not even close to enough evidence, but that hasn't stopped anyone from claiming otherwise. Which is vexsome. Quote: I haven't read the Mirrodin books yet. Was it stated what planes those people came from? No, even though we get a glimpse of it at the end. It may very well be more than one world too. Quote: Baron Sengir was from... Dominaria originally? Unknown, but he and Ravi knew each other a long time before the war. Quote: This list is getting long. Am I wrong on anything? Am I missing anything? It's an interesting topic to me, and something we don't really do much of anymore in our worldbuilding. Aven settling in Otaria from ????? And yes, since the mending, it seems there has been a ban on anything other than walkers traversing planes. Which is kind of a shame since natural portals add something to the worlds. Quote: (I am a Wizards of the Coast employee.) I feel so bad you have to do this now.

Author:	Pavor Nocturnus [ Sun Jul 24, 2016 3:21 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Interplanar immigration
I'm pretty sure portals being "gone" was never officially stated anywhere, though. Aaaanyway, trying to address the things I feel comfortable addressing... Nnnnever mind, I just clicked "Preview" and saw that Barinellos ninja'd me pretty hard. In that case, the only things I have left to say are: - I have a feeling the Future Sight printing of Graven Cairns is supposed to show the place where Baron Sengir's from, for whatever little that's worth. - I'm pretty sure the dwarves on Ulgrotha came through the portal under Castle Sengir from the unknown plane at the other end. I'll try to find a definite source for that, though.* - Not sure if you're counting that as immigration, but the original Phyrexians spread to a lot more planes other than Dominaria, partly for gathering artefacts and other resources, and partly for hunting down Urza. There are probably still a few cells or colonies out there (like Elspeth's homeplane for example). Planar portals are really interesting to me, too, and it's something I would encourage you guys at WotC to consider doing more often. It's always amazing to see WotC officials digging through novels and asking about obscure stuff. Good to see someone cares EDIT: So, I checked the Homelands Document, which is archived here: viewtopic.php?f=31&t=3645 So, yes, the dwarves came through the portal beneath Castle Sengir (before it was built) and nothing is known about their homeworld. There are a few complications involving that portal, though, which I'll put in spoiler tags. Spoiler Here's what it says about the planar rift that was torn open on Ulgrotha by the Ancients: Spoiler Making sure that this new threat did not grow strong enough to be dangerous, the repressive Ancients lay siege to the worlds the Tolgath held. Finally, the battle was joined at Ulgrotha, and all across this small world packs of wizards dueled each other, summoning creatures and casting spells of destruction and manipulation. The battle was so massive that at one point, by the coast of the Greater Sea, one of the Ancients' War-Lords was forced to rent open a rift from Ulgrotha to a different world entirely, just to fuel its spells. However, another part of the document suggests that this isn't the portal through which the dwarves came, because that one is said to be a naturally occuring portal: Spoiler A colony of Dwarves dig through a natural gate from another world to this one in search of minerals and gems, deep beneath the mountains of the Homelands, within the vicinity of the Rift. A Dwarven city is established, and is called New Freedom in the Dwarven tongue. It is a beautiful place filled with Dwarven-constructed artifacts and power/air/light generating machines, and the mining there yields great wealth. The Dwarves dig to the surface, and start to build a great stone castle called Morning Light overlooking the saltmarsh. Here's some more info about the gate: Spoiler The Baron discovered two things of importance in the years following his arrival in the Homelands - that a hidden stairwell led from the throneroom to a huge Dwarven City deep beneath the ground, and that within the underground city lay a Gate that led to another world. Though the Baron knew little of true magic, he knew that Gates were dangerous things, and that if one should be prepared to go through as if you would never return through it again. Realizing this, he decided that he would go through the Gate completely prepared, and started trying to devise a way to take control over a sizable number of the inhabitants of this world as his private army to lead through the Gate. Any of the vampires or undead servants he pushed through the Gate never returned, and none of his magics were able to discern where the gate led to. While he was somewhat sure that the Gate led back to some Dwarven Place, there was no guarantees. He searched through the city for clues for hundreds of years, interrogated Dwarves his servants captured for him and consulted divination devices from all over the Homelands - but to no avail, as he was still confronted with a one way gate to a place he knew nothing about. Feroz later discovers that the plane's mana is flowing from the Baron's castle, so the strange thing about all this is that both the Dwarven Gate (which is said to be naturally occuring) and the rift fuelling Ulgrotha with mana (torn open by a planeswalker) seem to be located beneath Castle Sengir, without being identical? I'd say this probably comes from the fact that the Homelands Document was a work in progress that isn't quite free of contradictions. They probably hadn't decided on a final explanation for the portal yet. I'd say it's probably best to ignore the asssertion that the Dwarven Gate was natural and just assume it's actually the rift. It says that the dwarves emerged in the vicinity of the rift after all, so this could suggest a connection. It would also fit timeline-wise because the document says the dwarves first arrived on Ulgrotha many generations after the planeswalker battle. Edit edit: The Homelands Document also gives an explanation for why there are Sengir Vampires on Dominaria and suggests the Baron isn't from there: While he* [Baron Sengir] spent time being summoned from world to world by a number of planeswalkers, he created a large number of Sengirian Vampires which still exist in the modern day, and torment those who live on Dominaria.

Author:	Jman22 [ Sun Jul 24, 2016 11:34 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Interplanar immigration
Barinellos wrote: Quote: (I am a Wizards of the Coast employee.) I feel so bad you have to do this now. I don't get why he has to do this now. It isn't like the mods here would let anyone randomly use a WotC tag like that. is it worth mentioning Slivers at all? Does the Rathi overlay count as immigration to Dominaria?

No Goblins Allowed http://862838.jrbdt8wd.asia/

Interplanar immigration http://862838.jrbdt8wd.asia/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=15470	Page 1 of 3

Author:	Barinellos [ Sun Jul 24, 2016 11:52 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Interplanar immigration
Jman22 wrote: Barinellos wrote: Quote: (I am a Wizards of the Coast employee.) I feel so bad you have to do this now. I don't get why he has to do this now. It isn't like the mods here would let anyone randomly use a WotC tag like that. It's company policy now that anyone interacting in the social mediacircles has to stipulate they are wotc employees.

Author:	Jman22 [ Mon Jul 25, 2016 12:01 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Interplanar immigration
Barinellos wrote: Jman22 wrote: Barinellos wrote: I feel so bad you have to do this now. I don't get why he has to do this now. It isn't like the mods here would let anyone randomly use a WotC tag like that. It's company policy now that anyone interacting in the social mediacircles has to stipulate they are wotc employees. That seems a bit moronic. why.

Author:	Barinellos [ Mon Jul 25, 2016 12:07 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Interplanar immigration
Jman22 wrote: Barinellos wrote: Jman22 wrote: I don't get why he has to do this now. It isn't like the mods here would let anyone randomly use a WotC tag like that. It's company policy now that anyone interacting in the social mediacircles has to stipulate they are wotc employees. That seems a bit moronic. why. http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/ar ... 2016-07-22 This is pretty much all they said.

Author:	Moppi [ Mon Jul 25, 2016 1:17 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Interplanar immigration
It's always nice when WOTC staff do this, digging stuff like these (though, Werefrog's case still lingers at the back of my skull, tingling whenever this happens) WotC_Ethan wrote: Serran refugees settled in Jamuraa and Benalia I always fancied myself to being updated with Serran lore... but I didn't know that some ended up in Jamuraa. Where was this stated? Barinellos, Pavos... Halp?

Author:	Jman22 [ Mon Jul 25, 2016 7:05 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Interplanar immigration
Barinellos wrote: Jman22 wrote: Barinellos wrote: It's company policy now that anyone interacting in the social mediacircles has to stipulate they are wotc employees. That seems a bit moronic. why. http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/ar ... 2016-07-22 This is pretty much all they said. So, some preemptive legal BS. Okay.

Author:	Pavor Nocturnus [ Mon Jul 25, 2016 7:14 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Interplanar immigration
Rummages around in his Magic bookshelf The info about Jamuraa comes from the final chapter of Time Streams (before the epilogue). 363 human refugees from Serra's Realm were brought to Zhalfir on board the Weatherlight by Jhoira and welcomed by Teferi. The ones in Benalia are first mentioned in Chapter II of Bloodlines. Some of the refugees stayed at Tolaria to study there. Other tangentially related trivia: - Davvol was brought to Rath from a place called Coracin, but the book (Bloodlines) is ambiguous as to whether that's the name of the plane or just a place on that plane. Or maybe the plane is really tiny and everything there is just called Coracin. - Both Rabiah and Kephalai have items from other planes show up in their markets for unknown reasons. - There's a portal leading from Sursi on Dominaria to the Koskun Mountains on Ulgrotha, though given the weirdly specific nature of the portal, it seems unlikely that many people ever stepped through it. And it seems to be a one-way trip because apparently you just appear on Ulgrotha out of thin air without a way back.

Author:	WotC_Ethan [ Mon Jul 25, 2016 3:30 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Interplanar immigration
Oh yeah, Coracin. I'm reasonably certain it's a plane. Davvol had different cranial anatomy than humans, and IIRC either Coracin's days were a different length, or their years were a different length, than Dominaria's. (Note: I'm not a member of Creative. Just floating my own opinion here.) @Moppi: There Werefrog case? When he told Brady which planeswalkers were still alive? This is just idle curiosity because I read too many Magic novels in rapid succession. I'm not planning on killing a bunch of interplanar immigrants! (Too soon?) @Pavor Nocturnus: Where was the Sursi-Koskun portal mentioned? That's... oddly specific. (I am a Wizards of the Coast employee.)

Author:	Pavor Nocturnus [ Mon Jul 25, 2016 5:37 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Interplanar immigration
WotC_Ethan wrote: Oh yeah, Coracin. I'm reasonably certain it's a plane. Davvol had different cranial anatomy than humans, and IIRC either Coracin's days were a different length, or their years were a different length, than Dominaria's. (Note: I'm not a member of Creative. Just floating my own opinion here.) I'm sure it's a plane we haven't seen anywhere else, but what I was trying to say is that it's not quite clear whether that unknown plane itself is called Coracin or if it's just the name of a location on that plane. WotC_Ethan wrote: @Moppi: There Werefrog case? When he told Brady which planeswalkers were still alive? This is just idle curiosity because I read too many Magic novels in rapid succession. I'm not planning on killing a bunch of interplanar immigrants! (Too soon?) Here's hoping the premise of this thread is just a cover and you're secretly doing research for Return to Ulgrotha... WotC_Ethan wrote: @Pavor Nocturnus: Where was the Sursi-Koskun portal mentioned? That's... oddly specific. The original source can be found here: http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/ar ... 2007-05-08 And yes, the whole thing is oddly specific. Everyone who ever managed to dive through that gate probably died of pneumonia two days later Though admittedly, the "appearing out of thin air" thing is more ambiguous than I remembered and might not be true. But the description kinda makes it sound like you just appear on Ulgrotha without a gate at the other end... WotC_Ethan wrote: (I am a Wizards of the Coast employee.) We should turn this into a Doctor Who running gag and always respond with "Yes, we know who you are" Edit: If you don't mind me asking, which MtG novels have you been reading lately? And which one(s) did you paricularly enjoy?

Author:	Empyreal [ Mon Jul 25, 2016 7:37 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Interplanar immigration
I seem to remember in The Quest for Karn novel that Venser was addicted to Blinkmoth serum... that he had on a plane that wasn't Mirrodin. I'm also fairly sure he said that students used it like how athlete's use steroids. I could be wrong as I only read the novel once YEARS ago and spent most of it disliking that book.

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Author:	Barinellos [ Mon Jul 25, 2016 8:46 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Interplanar immigration
Empyreal wrote: I seem to remember in The Quest for Karn novel that Venser was addicted to Blinkmoth serum... that he had on a plane that wasn't Mirrodin. I'm also fairly sure he said that students used it like how athlete's use steroids. I could be wrong as I only read the novel once YEARS ago and spent most of it disliking that book. It also said serum was made with zendikar baloth poop flying wildly in the face of even the Mirrodin book. So I wouldn't pay any attention to it at all.

Author:	Heliosphoros [ Mon Jul 25, 2016 9:01 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Interplanar immigration
Venser was the proto-Nissa

Author:	WotC_Ethan [ Mon Jul 25, 2016 9:14 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Interplanar immigration
Pavor Nocturnus wrote: WotC_Ethan wrote: Oh yeah, Coracin. I'm reasonably certain it's a plane. Davvol had different cranial anatomy than humans, and IIRC either Coracin's days were a different length, or their years were a different length, than Dominaria's. (Note: I'm not a member of Creative. Just floating my own opinion here.) I'm sure it's a plane we haven't seen anywhere else, but what I was trying to say is that it's not quite clear whether that unknown plane itself is called Coracin or if it's just the name of a location on that plane. Oh, I see. Quote: WotC_Ethan wrote: @Moppi: There Werefrog case? When he told Brady which planeswalkers were still alive? This is just idle curiosity because I read too many Magic novels in rapid succession. I'm not planning on killing a bunch of interplanar immigrants! (Too soon?) Here's hoping the premise of this thread is just a cover and you're secretly doing research for Return to Ulgrotha... No comment. Quote: WotC_Ethan wrote: @Pavor Nocturnus: Where was the Sursi-Koskun portal mentioned? That's... oddly specific. The original source can be found here: http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/ar ... 2007-05-08 Huh. Weird, but kinda interesting, and definitely relevant to the topic I was interested in! Quote: And yes, the whole thing is oddly specific. Everyone who ever managed to dive through that gate probably died of pneumonia two days later Though admittedly, the "appearing out of thin air" thing is more ambiguous than I remembered and might not be true. But the description kinda makes it sound like you just appear on Ulgrotha without a gate at the other end... WotC_Ethan wrote: (I am a Wizards of the Coast employee.) We should turn this into a Doctor Who running gag and always respond with "Yes, we know who you are" Edit: If you don't mind me asking, which MtG novels have you been reading lately? And which one(s) did you paricularly enjoy? Oh, there were so many... The Artifacts cycle, the Ice Age cycle, Agents of Artifice, The Thran, and I played the Battlemage video game a bit. I actually really enjoyed Timestreams. All the fast-time and slow-time bubble stuff was explored in a really satisfying, science fictiony way.

Author:	TPmanW [ Mon Jul 25, 2016 10:47 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Interplanar immigration
Lot of fantasy sci-fi fans here. I suppose mentioning specifics to a WOTC employee is taboo, but we have a YMTC plane with an astronomical phenomena for its schtick and an alchemy plane in the M:EM. I believe that planes like the artificial Mirrodin and timey-wimey ball that is Tarkir make the best use of the concept of a multiverse.

Author:	Pantera Canes [ Tue Jul 26, 2016 3:44 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Interplanar immigration
I like the interest in the books. I don't have much to add but wanted to put something positive in here.

Author:	AzureShade [ Tue Jul 26, 2016 4:00 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Interplanar immigration
At this time I don't remember if it was ever mentioned where the elves and merfolk of Skyshroud/Rootwater came from before they ended up on Rath. Also while I remember that Skyshroud forest ended up on Dominaria after the overlay (obviously), stuck in the frozen wasteland of Keld, and that the elves sorta turned out okay thanks to some help from Freyalise, I'm not sure what happened to the rather cool looking Rootwater merfolk. MtG Salvation's Wiki says that Skyshroud and Rootwater were originally stolen from a Dominarian ocean somewhere, but that information isn't really sourced and I don't remember it.