Okay, we've finished up Lorwyn with rather minimal changes. The planeswalkers that are introduced in this block all have some minor business on the plane, but the story itself remains pretty much the same. We also changed the planeswalkers that are introduced for the first time: Gideon, Jace, Ashiok, Chandra and Nissa will be the new Lorwyn 5.

Now we move on to Alara, which has the opportunity for greater changes, seeing how the planeswalkers are front and center in this story. It also opens a chance to call back to the Mending, with Nicol Bolas' story. Elspeth was also originally intended to be an Oldwalker, but I'm not sure we need to consider that too much, especially since I'd rather see the gap between Future Sight and Lorwyn to be a bit of a timejump.

We also have Duel Deck: Jace vs Chandra around this period and I think we might want to change that as well (I don't think Divine vs Demonic is all that interesting for this endeavor).

Have at it.

Barinellos gave me this message in case he couldn't comment early enough:

As a further argument to include Venser in Tezzeret's place, thus gives us a very early and powerful way to establish the amount of time that had actually elapsed since the mending. Showing an older Venser drives home the passage of tine and doesn't leave it nebulous for ages until it's poorly retconned when they realize they goofed.

I've also been turning over the idea of what to do with m10. I think using it as a launching point for both the zendikar and chain veil plots is best. Start with Jace v Chandra, combining the webcomic into the Purifying Fire and featuring Gideon again. Though using him ahead of this time does prove... Problematic since Laura invented him. Anyways, segue the hunter and the veil into Jace researching the scroll now, making more sense than him coming back to it years later. Garruk gets introduced and points Jace at Zendikar in the midst of his encounter with Liliana.

I think if you want to establish a timeline well, I'm not sure Venser is the best choice. Isn't he one of those that uses magic to manipulate his age?

Making Elspeth an old walker and showing how much she has aged would be a better way IMO

I don't recall him displaying any such vanity in the Time Spiral books, just his artificer's instinct. Teferi, on the other hand...

EDIT: Also, when exactly are we introducing Garruk?

Alara block would be a good time, simply because his original character would fit in on Naya (hunting big game for summons) as a visitor

I'd really rather not see Elspeth used like that. Besides the fact that her age never made sense with the oldwalker thing, her story feels appropriate to someone young who hadn't experienced much.

But no Venser never had anything to do with temporal magic. He had spatial magic as his specialty, besides his artifice.

@Landis: my pitch is to introduce Garruk in m10.
Garruk didn't actually appear in a block until Innistrad, so introducing him is probably best for a core set.

@jman: Naya already has Ajani and we can't exactly not use him.

In terms of Lilliana and the comic: I feel like she's a character that's worthy of a build up. Play into the "she's my weakness" trope with jace and her. Give her appearances in the comic, maybe move Kothophed onto what ever plane necessary to put her in the plot, then continue to build her up in small steps until her appearance (I would suggest her first card appearance in Innistrad).

We should also make a list of all the changes, like an orderly list to keep track of everything.

I like the idea of saving Ajani for set 2. We could still have 4 walkers for the first set- Bant-?, Venser for Esper, Liliana for Grixis, and Sarkhan for Jund, leaving people wandering about Naya (much like the lack of Grixis having one the first time). Then have Ajani revealed in the second set, and then just do a sixth walker by having Bolas in the last set.

She is very young, then the mending happens, and she finds Bant and ages a bit there. Doesn't change her storyline much, if at all.

As for Naya not using Ajani, Garruk is a green PW, Ajani is a Red/White one. And having Garruk/Elspeth in Shards, Ajani/Sarkhan in Conflux, Bolas in Reborn would be interesting. Of course, this creates the design issue of "No blue and black planeswalkers" which is why I think Tezz was in Alara block, but there's not a lot you can do to solve that without large changes to the story. You need to introduce Sarkhan here (unless you are just removing him from the story entirely, which I disagree with) and unless you are ramping core sets a huge amount, the only other chance to intoduce Garruk is in Alara block. If you do that, I guess you insert Garruk's first appearance in M10, and have Venser (for whatever reason you guys are liking him in Alara block) into Shards.

Yeah, we'd definitely play up the introduction in m10. As it is, the stuff takes place on Shandalar which us where the entire chain veil arc starts too. But more, it means not having to change a bunch of the webcomics. Folding Jace v Chandra into the purifying fire (released alongside m10 as well) lets us do the hunter and the veil story arc and set up Garruk pointing Jace to Zendikar the same as before.

Can we get a list of released products around the time of discussion? I'm having a hard time trying to keep track of everything that was released Round the time of the discussion.But I do remember at some point faction decks started coming just before the set and the walker decks came just after and that makes sense to me. It could also allow us to discuss if we think the factions are the right way to introduce the set or if we should be doing more walker decks to help push story elements,like associating them with web comics like Jace and Chandra/Garruk and Liliana. Or if we want them to focus on the upcoming story like Elsepth Vs. Tezz.

I have a list. I'll post it when I get home.

I'll comment more tomorrow when things are less weird here.

For the record, the product line is missing elves vs goblins and the duels of the planeswalkers specialty release.

Finally I respond! I think this thread will be a bit less interesting, because Alara already does a lot of what we want to accomplish.

I'd also like to put out a general call to anyone who wants to reach out to YMtC for this. I don't think I have the energy to do it.


Is there a good reason not to use Vengeant?


I have no problem with this, but this makes Agents of Artifice the first time we see Tezzeret, which I like a bit less. I can understand why you'd opt to cut him in Alara, rather than tying him to the story.


If you want to introduce a character (especially a planeswalker) they need a card.



Absolutely.


I think this works. (And if we were also tackling the design, I'd probably not do the gold only set.)



Good idea. A shame we can't put one of her Demons on the plane, so her presence makes even more sense. Even without that, I think she's a good fit and we do need her to advance the story.



Venser doesn't need to be young. In fact, I'd appreciate more diversity earlier on in the story. I also think Elspeth works better as a young character and really doesn't need to be an Oldwalker for any reason.




The lack of Blue or Black planeswalkers bothers me a bit, but I don't think we should focus too much on color balance, especially since that sort of thing matters more on the rotation aspect rather than the block constructed aspect.

Venser works on Alara because (a) he's an artificer, (b)he needs to meet Elspeth anyway, and (c) he can be the bridge between pre-Mending and post-Mending that he's supposed to be anyway.

Introducing Garruk is important, but a core set might work for that. One of the lessons we learned from the post-Mending era is that having a story in your core set works perfectly fine. It doesn't need to be huge and it's probably best if important events don't happen in the core set, but just having a character show up could work, especially if you have him featured in flavor text and such.



Mostly on purpose. Elves vs Goblins is perfectly fine and doesn't need changing and the DotP stuff isn't story relevant as far as I can tell.

Chandra had some story stuff in DotP, as I recall. Then Gideon had some, then there was the hunt for Garruk, and then the Origins malarkey.

DoTP is probably relevant, but the cardboard decks that came with it aren't.

For Esper, if you wanted to stretch a bit, you could use Vronos. He's never had a card, but does have strong connections to Innistrad and Esper. It would also allow Garruk's "curse" to have a bit more meaning down the line.

Use the same excuse they have for lily on innistrad for her on alara: She thinks its cool

On a related topic: We should compile a complete and organized list of changes before this gets too messy to deal with, possibly at the end of each of these threads?

The last one had:
-Jace, Chandra, Nissa, Ashiok, and Gideon as the main five
-Other things? I don't know