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 Post subject: Dwarves are coming back.
PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2015 11:53 am 
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Neat!
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2015 12:00 pm 
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I look forward to maybe seeing dwarves at some point in the next seven years.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2015 12:04 pm 
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Maybe?

They're set to play a significant role.
That seems pretty concrete to me.

I think I'd enjoy if they leaned more towards W than R.
White needs an iconic race that's intuitive towards fantasy design and it would help set Magic's dwarves apart from their expected R leanings.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2015 12:22 pm 
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Maybe?

They're set to play a significant role.
That seems pretty concrete to me.

Seven years. A lot can change in seven years. Hell, a lot can change in one year. I seem to recall hearing that the creative works two blocks ahead, and seven years at the current model is 14 blocks, right?

I'm with AzureShade on this one: I hope we see dwarves again but I don't have my hopes set too high.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2015 12:25 pm 
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Tevish Szat has been ecstatic lately. He has admired his own fine bed lately. He has had a good meal lately. He has been extremely pleased to hear the news about dwarves lately. He needs caffeine to get through the working day.

(Seriously though, I freeking love dwarves. The fact that I keep slotting them into the M:EM should probably be a hint. I think they work great as white-splash-red in their traditional form.)

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2015 12:50 pm 
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Adarkar Valkyrie could also return, as it is a Snow White card :V


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2015 1:17 pm 
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I hope we see dwarves again but I don't have my hopes set too high.

"I think you underestimate their chances."

Mark Rosewater had previously given a very definite "Yes" to the return of dwarves to Magic (he later changed his tune to something akin to looking good, granted). Dwarves seem to be a topic that R&D returns to every once in a while. It's been suggested as the white characteristic race. And the "It's in the current seven-year plan" thing... he last used that in an article in reference to full-art basic lands at a time when Battle for Zendikar was pretty much a given already (I'm not fully certain of the timeline - I want to say it was during Theros). So yeah, I'd say chances are good that these dwarves won't be killed by elephants and unicorns and carps. Now they just need to make sure not to pull the lever.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2015 4:50 pm 
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It turns out there were dwarves underground on Innistrad all along.

Because if it was stupid as hell on Ravnica, there's no reason not to do it again.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2015 6:13 pm 
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Barinellos wrote:
It turns out there were dwarves underground on Innistrad all along.

Because if it was stupid as hell on Ravnica, there's no reason not to do it again.

*slowclap*

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2015 6:31 pm 
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To be honest, while I'd be really happy to see dwarves in Magic again, I don't want them to be White's characteristic race. They make more sense in :r: to me than in :w:, or about the same degree of sense at most. :w::r: dwarves would be okay, but them being all :w: would take it too far. I think you could justify dwarves bleeding into all colours, but I really think they should stay centered in :r:.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2015 8:12 pm 
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Strike the earth!

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2015 10:11 pm 
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2015 10:14 pm 
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To be honest, while I'd be really happy to see dwarves in Magic again, I don't want them to be White's characteristic race. They make more sense in :r: to me than in :w:, or about the same degree of sense at most. :w::r: dwarves would be okay, but them being all :w: would take it too far. I think you could justify dwarves bleeding into all colours, but I really think they should stay centered in :r:.

How do they fit red more?
Besides living in a mountain.
Traditionally speaking, they are strict hierarchical tradition and law based societies.
They don't exactly jive with the entire "chaos and fire" vibe going on in red.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2015 10:18 pm 
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Dwarf: A short, sturdy creature fond of drink and industry.

Sounds white with a little red to me, but you might make arguments either way.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2015 10:20 pm 
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Dwarf: A short, sturdy creature fond of drink and industry.

Sounds white with a little red to me, but you might make arguments either way.

Honestly, I put them in white/black, what with most of their really negative factors fitting into black.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2015 10:27 pm 
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Well, Greed is certainly black, but I'm pretty sure grudge-bearing "Eventual retribution for slights" is more white. Though I suppose Repay in Kind exists.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2015 11:07 pm 
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Builders and breakers of great artifacts, known for their hot tempers, driven to create great works of craft, some of which might end up turning people into huge dragons?

I'm not saying they must be red, I'm just saying anything can kinda be anything if you select the right details :P I mean you could make Elves white easily if you decided that the stuff about nature wasn't actually such a big deal in Lord of the Rings compared to all the association with light and being the chosen people and the ordering of Elvish society and so on.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 12:29 am 
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Builders and breakers of great artifacts, known for their hot tempers, driven to create great works of craft, some of which might end up turning people into huge dragons?

I'm not saying they must be red, I'm just saying anything can kinda be anything if you select the right details :P I mean you could make Elves white easily if you decided that the stuff about nature wasn't actually such a big deal in Lord of the Rings compared to all the association with light and being the chosen people and the ordering of Elvish society and so on.

Wait people thought that elves fit into green because of LOTR? It may be because I haven't read any of the books (yet), but I didn't get any vibes of green from them.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 12:43 am 
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The elves of Lothorien are kinda green in the way that Llanowar is, and Mirkwood feels like a sort of proto-lorwyn in Hobbit (but more friendly in LotR where it's represented by Legolas) and in general the Forces of Good are sorta rural/natural as opposed to baddies in the industrial spectrum? But you go into the Silmarilion and elves would be in all colors but most strongly white (light, order, civilization) and blue (the wise ones, crafting arcane wonders). Feanor and his sons come off as :r::w::b: to me.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 12:51 am 
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Yeah it's not so much that people are drawing directly on Tolkien for the Nature Loving Green Elves I just mean that like I think you could argue it a variety of ways, and it's possible to get from Tolkien to D&D to Magic but also possible to get from Tolkien to, say, Memory Sorrow and Thorn to A Song of Ice and Fire, and get... I don't know what those would be, white black elves?


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