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PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2013 4:50 am 
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Today's random flavor discussion card is Circle of Protection: Red.

I don't ave mush to say about this one. All of the CoP's have a clear flavor, but it doesn't really open up for discussion. I must say that I find it interesting how different artists have illustrated this card, though. I think my favorite would be either the Tempest version, or the 7th Ed. What do you think?

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2013 6:51 am 
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Fifth Edition will always be, to me, the most iconic of all the Circles. Part of this is the fact that during the times when ESPN aired magic tourneys, the COP Red was used as a team logo for Chicago's team. It has always stood out to me as a result.
It isn't my favorite, however, since that honor goes to Harold McNeill's rendition. Harold had the special honor as well, of creating the circle of protection for Shadows.

I will say that this is a casualty that makes me sad to see fall out of Magic. It was a classic cycle whose time seemed all too brief.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2013 8:55 am 
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The CoP to colors raises some interesting questions about the nature of the color wheel and how mages of the multiverse utilize it. For those of you who have read my story The Planes of the Dual-Walkers, you may remember a fair amount of discussion about the nature of green mana, which caused some interesting debate about how few people in the multiverse actually "know" about the colors. To me, the color-specific CoPs indicate that more people understand that than the official wizards statements indicate.

To me, the issue of color knowledge boils down to the original premise of the game, that every player is a planeswalker fighting a dual. And, since every player knows about the colors, that suggests to me that most planeswalkers would know about them, as well. Now, admittedly, we have plenty of canonical evidence that they don't, like Jace in "Agents of Artifice", for instance. Still, on a personal level, I think enough cards in the game, like the circles of protection, combined with the player/walker connection, indicates that knowledge of the colors should be acceptable, at least in my humble opinion.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2013 11:11 am 
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For an MTG story with, I think, the most constant use of CoP spells, see Arena. Garth was tossing those around left and right and we got a decent look at how they actually function.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2013 11:58 am 
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Arena is a great novel. It's actually one of my favorite MTG books.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2013 12:02 pm 
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To continue from Raven's postulation; I think it kind of shows the divide between oldwalkers and the neowalkers that cards like the Circle of Protection cycle aren't printed in any real capacity anymore. Like Luminesce (though that's probably a horrible example since it was last printed in 10th ed.), when color-specific cards are even printed anymore, it's most often the casting color's two enemies, rather than one specific color.

Now, I have no real experience with the older material (I've only managed to pick up and read The Brothers' War and Planeswalker), so I can't really say how much oldwalkers knew about color mechanics in relation to what we see the neowalkers know.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2013 1:38 pm 
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A-4: A strange piece. I don't like that the figure isn't really inside the Circle. It makes it feel more like a Ward than a proper CoP. Though, I really can't fault Mark Tendin's technicals -- the art is gorgeous.

5/6: 5th went the direction with its circles of protection that the circle is made from the element it protects against. This is a really odd choice, IMO, but it does work, as it gets both the Circle and the Target Color in the image.

7/8: Doesn't work for me. It's not a complete fail -- there's still a clear circle, but I get more of a "vortex" off it than anything else.

9: One of my favorite CoP:R arts (along with Tempest). You have a hovering Instant Runes circle, and if you pay attention to the art, it does seem to be hedging out or driving away flames. I find it sad that only Black and Red made it to 9th edition to get Christopher Rush's treatment: I'd have liked to see what he'd do with variations on the theme for Blue, Green, and White.

Ice Age: No sir, I don't like it. The Ice Age circles are very odd in general, and red is no different. We've got a figure, and some rings, and a whole lot of fire, but they all seem to be originating from the same point. If you told me that the art in question went to a burn spell... I'd call BS, but only because I know my Ice Age art -- if I didn't already know better, I'd believe you

Tempest: Possibly my favorite Circle of Protection: Red and also possibly my favorite Tempest Circle of Protection. Harold McNeill's CoP cycle is beautiful, but often it loses communication thanks to its abstraction. Some are hedging out, some are hemming in, and some have images in a circle and a color wash outside. Red, however, is rather straightforward: it hedges out some sort of lava flow. This is not only the most direct example of a CoP: Red actually protecting from red, it's also one of the most visually distinct circle designs we've seen.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2013 3:01 pm 
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The CoP to colors raises some interesting questions about the nature of the color wheel and how mages of the multiverse utilize it. For those of you who have read my story The Planes of the Dual-Walkers, you may remember a fair amount of discussion about the nature of green mana, which caused some interesting debate about how few people in the multiverse actually "know" about the colors. To me, the color-specific CoPs indicate that more people understand that than the official wizards statements indicate.
As I've pointed out before, Jodah knew about the colors and basically codified and wrote a thesis about it. Everyone in Lat-nam was divided according to their color.
With color knowledge, it's the difference between going to university or having a private tutor. The tutor won't give you the same breadth of knowledge the university could. In this case, it's because they don't know it either while the uni will have a lot of different colors studying under different teachers.

Incidentally, Jodah cast this exact spell in Gathering Dark. Amusingly as well, they dressed him in Red and taught him some fire spells to throw his opponent off their game.

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Like Luminesce (though that's probably a horrible example since it was last printed in 10th ed.), when color-specific cards are even printed anymore, it's most often the casting color's two enemies, rather than one specific color.

I freaking LOATHE hatespell cycles. In my view, they are absolute garbage and nothing but limited fodder, and **** limited fodder at that. I wish they'd stop printing them altogether.

Speaking of things I hate, this STUPID NESTED URL QUOTE CRAP...

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2013 4:32 pm 
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People like you are why I love Color Hate spells. Nothing like a casual game when you play a turn two gloom on the guy running mono-white to say "I guess we aren't friends anymore?".

Realistically, I never understood the hate. Short of the COP against black/red, there isn't much against it.

Can they be a pain in the ass too play against? Yes. Are they mostly side board material? Yes. Does that make them any less legitimate a strategy? No.

As for the COP, I love the Harold McNiel cycle.

Then for red, the Ice age art.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2013 4:44 pm 
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People like you are why I love Color Hate spells. Nothing like a casual game when you play a turn two gloom on the guy running mono-white to say "I guess we aren't friends anymore?".

Realistically, I never understood the hate. Short of the COP against black/red, there isn't much against it.

Can they be a pain in the ass too play against? Yes. Are they mostly side board material? Yes. Does that make them any less legitimate a strategy? No.
I never play against them because nobody realistically runs them and I don't play against anybody that bothers to make a sideboard since... they aren't competitive.
The reason I hate them are that they are a total waste of a card slot in my packs. Yes, I actually buy packs instead of exclusively singles.
It's because I will NEVER use them so that's effectively a card I just got gypped.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2013 5:25 pm 
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I enjoy color hosers in tandem with Magical Hack and its relatives.

I'm also a terrible person.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2013 7:15 pm 
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Barinellos wrote:
Speaking of things I hate, this STUPID NESTED URL QUOTE CRAP...
And yet you bothered finding and replacing my name...

Although, it does make knowing where to cut off a quote more difficult...



...Who buys singles?

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2013 10:13 pm 
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CoP's have always seemed pretty OP to me, but then again, that's why I ran them in the Zur EDH.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 12:22 am 
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Barinellos wrote:
Speaking of things I hate, this STUPID NESTED URL QUOTE CRAP...
And yet you bothered finding and replacing my name...

Although, it does make knowing where to cut off a quote more difficult...



...Who buys singles?

I didn't bother to find it, I went ahead and put it in since the stupid thing wouldn't work for the SIX TIMES I tried to get it to work.

Anyways, as sad as it is anyways to see the CoPs drift away, the new standard is clearly Story Circle.
While we're on the topic of the circles, we might as well discuss the runes.

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