Joined: Nov 15, 2013 Posts: 2388 Location: Roaming Dominaria
I definitely agree about the impact of marketing (and better story/card integration for that matter). I mean, in fairness, the last two printed novels were Quest for Karn and Test of Metal and those are pretty much universally hated, and the e-books probably didn't have much of a chance to begin with because e-books are harder to sell to people than printed books. But even when printed novels were still a thing, the fanbase pretty frequently complained about the lack of marketing. If they had had a better and more aggressive marketing strategy (or any marketing strategy at all) and a better editorial system to prevent duds like QFK and TOM from happening, we would probably still have printed novels in some form. And then, it would probably have been a wise move to come back to the authors they had previously worked with whenever possible, who knew the world and whose books were good and successful, and to pay them decently (which is why Clayton Emery stopped working with WotC after Legends I apparently). Just commissioning and releasing novels isn't enough, a novel line needs some care and maintainance. I daresay that a continuing novel line with a better integration with the cards could even have prevented the latest batch of retcons in Origins from happening.
I understand that the artbooks are a great and comprehensive source of info about the planes. But honestly, so were the novels. I know a lot about planes like Kamigawa, Mirrodin and Ravnica (not to mention Dominaria) because I got to read novel trilogies based on them, with each trilogy costing roughly the same (or perhaps less) than an artbook. It's probably a matter of individual preference, but I prefer absorbing info about a setting from stories rather than facts listed in an artbook, and I'm more attracted to stories than visual art. There's enough art on the cards to show us what a plane looks like. Given how detailed the Planeswalker's Guides used to be before Kaladesh (Theros, Innistrad etc.), I feel like they've taken something away from me that used to be available for free (PW Guides) while not offering another thing anymore that I was willing to pay for (novels). And that sucks. And that's not even talking about things like maps or a clear official timeline that helped flesh out the MtG universe and that they stopped doing.
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"Enchant me with your tale-telling. Tell about Tree, Grass, River, and Wind. Tell why Truth must fight with Falsehood, and why Truth will always win." —Love Song of Night and Day
You fell victim to one of the classic blunders - The most famous of which is "never get involved in an thread with GM_Champion" - but only slightly less well-known is this: "Never go in against AzureShade when card design is on the line!"
This reminds me of some Belgian history. When Antwerp was under Spanish control, Antwerp rebels loaded a ship called "Hope" full of explosives to blow up a bridge. It didn't work and a ton of people got killed. Weird how similar this is.
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"I'm all for screwing with the natural order. The natural order objectively is awful. The natural order includes death, disease, pain, and starvation." --Sam Keeper
I kind of want this to end up like the end of Stargate where the Gatwewatch send the nuke-Thopter through the Planar Bridge and it pops out the other end in Amonkhet because that was Tezzeret's plan all along....to improbably find someone on Kaladesh that could invent a way to worm-hole things between planes, send Baan to enlist the Gatwatch only to have them join the other side when Chandra's history kicks in and the rest get a whiff of Tezz's presence on the plane, go megalomanical with his doomsday bridge to trigger the rebels and the Gatewatch to do something crazy stupid to stop him....all to drop a bomb at the doorstep of Bolas' summer retreat just in time for him to show up there for his thousand-year summer party and be blown the hell up to free Tezzeret from his dragon master.
That sounds like a Xanatos Roulette that Tezz would be capable of conceiving.
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magicpablo666 wrote:
You fell victim to one of the classic blunders - The most famous of which is "never get involved in an thread with GM_Champion" - but only slightly less well-known is this: "Never go in against AzureShade when card design is on the line!"
I'm a (self) published author now! You can find my books on Amazon in Paperback or ebook! The Accursed, a standalone young adult fantasy adventure. Witch Hunters, book one of a young adult Scifi-fantasy trilogy.
You fell victim to one of the classic blunders - The most famous of which is "never get involved in an thread with GM_Champion" - but only slightly less well-known is this: "Never go in against AzureShade when card design is on the line!"
You fell victim to one of the classic blunders - The most famous of which is "never get involved in an thread with GM_Champion" - but only slightly less well-known is this: "Never go in against AzureShade when card design is on the line!"
You fell victim to one of the classic blunders - The most famous of which is "never get involved in an thread with GM_Champion" - but only slightly less well-known is this: "Never go in against AzureShade when card design is on the line!"
also the art for Chandra and Pia's Revolution match up nicely...
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magicpablo666 wrote:
You fell victim to one of the classic blunders - The most famous of which is "never get involved in an thread with GM_Champion" - but only slightly less well-known is this: "Never go in against AzureShade when card design is on the line!"
Now that the set and everything is out, why don't we talk about the story resolution? The fat pack lines out that in the aftermath, Liliana shares that Tezzeret let's slip that something big is going on with Bolas. Ajani, freshly indoctrinated, says that they'll need help and they should regroup on Dominaria (who do they even know there?) and leaves. Meanwhile our... "heroes" decide that, nope! they can't wait to free an entire world from Bolas! So, not heeding Ajani, they immediately rush off.
I'm ridiculously disappointed Liliana, at least, wasn't smart enough to cash out on that plan. Jace should have known better too, but I can believe he'd jump in with the rest of them. Interesting that Ajani won't be showing up.
But oh sweet gods, they NEED to get absolutely wrecked next block. I mean, there's just no question this HAS to end in failure for this team. It's not just that they're going up against something so much further above them (thanks Eldrazi...) but also that they're jumping in half cocked and biting to win.
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At twilight's end, the shadow's crossed / a new world birthed, the elder lost. Yet on the morn we wake to find / that mem'ry left so far behind. To deafened ears we ask, unseen / "Which is life and which the dream?"
*"To YMTC it up" means to design cards that have value mostly from a design perspective. i.e. you would put them in a case under glass in your living room and visitors could remark upon the wonderful design principles, with nobody ever worring if the cards are annoying/pointless/confusing in actual play
I'm ridiculously disappointed Liliana, at least, wasn't smart enough to cash out on that plan. Jace should have known better too, but I can believe he'd jump in with the rest of them. Interesting that Ajani won't be showing up.
I think that this kind of thing is what they save for the specific stories, not the summaries in the artbook/fat pack. We won't know why Liliana goes (if she really does: the description is somewhat vague in the ratbook at least) until we get to that chapter.
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But oh sweet gods, they NEED to get absolutely wrecked next block. I mean, there's just no question this HAS to end in failure for this team. It's not just that they're going up against something so much further above them (thanks Eldrazi...) but also that they're jumping in half cocked and biting to win.
I do think they're laying groundwork for a Gatewatch upset. They're charging off totally unprepared to fight the multiverse's (likely) most powerful mage on his home turf, flash with the thrill (hubris) of three victories (of which they only even really earned two). Those circumstances practically demand they get thoroughly thrashed.
If that doesn't happen, that absolutely would unjustifiably bad storytelling.
EDIT: I would be okay with them getting thrashed in Act 1, but winning overall. The explanation of how they rallied to ultimate victory needs to clear a very high bar, though.
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"Ability words are flavor text for Melvins."
"Remember, dear friends: when we announce something and you imagine it, the odds that we made exactly that thing are zero."---Kelly Digges
But oh sweet gods, they NEED to get absolutely wrecked next block. I mean, there's just no question this HAS to end in failure for this team. It's not just that they're going up against something so much further above them (thanks Eldrazi...) but also that they're jumping in half cocked and biting to win.
I said my piece on this in another thread
Long Story
I mostly agree, but I have one differing note. I'd take a push on Amonkhet, where the Gatewatch doesn't really stop bolas but doesn't get destroyed either, to get a loss somewhere like Ravnica where the Gatewatch is on the defensive. For the sake of stakes, I don't just want to see the Gatewatch die. Heck, you could say that I don't really want to see them die: I think it could be more powerful if at least most of them live to see the villain's triumph. I imagine the circumstance where they go into Amonkhet guns blazing and get reduced to pasty smears by Bolas, but then I imagine the scenario where they survive that and return to Ravnica, only for Vraska to get her shot in at Jace and whether by his death or not destroy the Living Guildpact. Only for ruin, madness, sorrow, and destruction to be brought to the people the Gatewatch was supposed to be taking care of from the get-go, for them to suffer an utter defeat on their 'home' plane. I want to see how they feel, knowing their efforts have failed. Watching powerless to stand before the oncoming storm as Bolas and his pawns operating in Ravnica don't even have to brute force the matter, just give it a little nudge and the guilds themselves will ensure that all the Gatewatch stood for will be torn down, the fate of their people set along the road to destruction. And in the darkest hour, when the Guild War rages all around them, the Gateless, the little people like all those others the Gatewatch has purported to stand for, look up and they don't see oh big bad Vraska and bigger bad Bolas. They see the Gatewatch who brought this wrath down upon them, the impotent anger of the dying rounding upon the fools who dreamed themselves the saviors of worlds. And as for the Last of the Elder Dragons, the god-emperor of Madara? If he shows up, and flexes his muscle -- when he devours Niv-Mizzet and breaks Rakdos the Defiler to his will, when he claps his wings over the battlefield and the belligerents cease their conflict to gaze in terrified awe upon what has come before them? Who do you think Ravnica shall bow in prostration to now?
Of course, as I said, most of the Gatewatch members survive this scenario. Perhaps they even reform (With new "Get Bolas First" Tenets and/or maybe under Liliana's leadership on Dominaria), but they'll have that loss on their record forever, not because they bit off more than they could chew, not because there was an "accident", or a mistake and they 'walked into a situation unprepared'; not because some "tragedy" happened, or an unavoidable enemy action while they were away... no, they'll have lost because they fought their hardest, pushing themselves to the limits... and it wasn't good enough.
A good villain will manage a win where the heroes are weak and they are strong. A great villain -- someone playing on the level of, say, Princess Azula, or the level Bolas ought, can really distinct themselves by claiming a win where they ought to be weak, and the heroes strong, not just managing to foil being foiled and maintain the status quo, but really taking something away from the good guys that they can't really get back.
Short: Looking forward to something pwning Gatewatch and soon, but there are merits to having the villain's lair be a push or a scenario in which they're just superfluous and taking the smackdown to the Gatewatch where it matters to them.
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"Enjoy your screams, Sarpadia - they will soon be muffled beneath snow and ice."
I'm a (self) published author now! You can find my books on Amazon in Paperback or ebook! The Accursed, a standalone young adult fantasy adventure. Witch Hunters, book one of a young adult Scifi-fantasy trilogy.
I'm ridiculously disappointed Liliana, at least, wasn't smart enough to cash out on that plan.
The short explanation will be Razaketh.
I've joined up in team-based games before for the sole reason of reaching achievements that would not be as beneficial to the team as simply playing the game normally would (Sure, we lost this round, but I got 10 environmental kills!). I definitely understand Liliana's motivation here, dealing with her demon while she has the support to, and am fully expecting her ambivalence in engaging Bolas to be the key flaw in the Gatewatch plan.
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