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PostPosted: Wed Feb 17, 2016 5:32 pm 
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That sounds like a good thing, but I'm curious how things like AoA and duel decks will be handled, being sequentially out of sorts.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2016 3:07 am 
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AzureShade wrote:
One thing I may do tomorrow (unless someone else beats me to it) is go through every 'Walker we have a card for and list when, in the story it is imperative that they show up. That way we know who we can and can't use to fill in holes and adjust things around.


That depends entirely on what you mean by "imperative." Is it imperative that 'Walkers do what they did in canon (I would argue no)? Is it imperative that they die when they did in canon (I'm more ambivalent about this)?


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2016 3:24 am 
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(Sorry I'm not as active here as I should be. Getting anything done has been painful lately and getting things done at work is currently important.)

I think it's a good idea to have such a list (including novels), even if we eventually deviate from it. Either by choice or because of the ripple effects.

I'd like to keep the novels around, but the duel decks could be shifted and played with. If, for example, Chandra and Jace show up later than they originally did, their duel deck could be replaced by, say, Elspeth vs Liliana (or whatever).

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2016 8:30 am 
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Bolas de Cabrito.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2016 9:55 am 
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And then there was a list!

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2016 12:47 pm 
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Wait wait hold on, Bolas (now, apparently) set up Liliana's deals with the demons?

That's... I just...

What the hell have they done to this poor innocent storyline :/


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2016 2:01 pm 
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Wait wait hold on, Bolas (now, apparently) set up Liliana's deals with the demons?

That's... I just...

What the hell have they done to this poor innocent storyline :/
Happened in Origins? The story basically went:

-Liliana comes to Bolas all shriveled and old. She's all "Screw you dragon for being functionally immortal!"
-Bolas is all "Ha ha, you got old! By the way, we can fix that. I know some guys...."
-Liliana is like "I hate you and everything you stand for.....sign me up."
-Then they go on a multiversal world tour to meet and greet some demons. We get to see Kothophed rip Liliana apart and rebuild her young again.

EDIT: More acurate parts can be found here: http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/uncharted-realms/lilianas-origin-fourth-pact-2015-06-17

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2016 2:36 pm 
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Wtf how did my post end up here instead of the innistrad thread. I can't even. And now it's far to late to delete it

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2016 3:07 pm 
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Re: list

Dack is also tangentially in Ravnica and introduced tangentially in Innistrad.
For Garruk, I'd probably just collapse veil cursed and apex predator into the same story.
I probably wouldn't bother doing Sarkhan Unbroken at all.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2016 5:39 pm 
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I still think doing Lorwyn right after Future Sight was probably a mistake at that time (also talking from my own experience). A more down to earth setting would give people time to take a breath and make it easier to integrate our new mono-colour 'walkers into the block's story and plane. We could still do Lorwyn after that and include 'walkers like Nissa etc.

@Garruk: We could also consider getting him uncursed at some point (maybe at the end of Innistrad when he seeks out Avacyn), or maybe the curse could just wear off after a while. Ob Nixilis turned into a demon because he used the Veil himself, so his condition could still work the same. Or we could basically swap Garruk and Nissa, that is, nobody gets cursed at all, Garruk stays green and gets some development as his old self, and Nissa becomes our green villain as she should have before WotC ruined her character. She may or may not splash black later and maybe replace Vraska in RtR. I mean, we might want to do away with the whole Living Guildpact plot anyway, and having Nissa come to Ravnica as an anti-civilisation villain seems like a possible alternative.

@Sarkhan: Yeah, nobody needs Sarkhan Unbroken. But then, I have a feeling that there are A LOT of things about Tarkir block that we'd like to change when we get there anyway, so what the best thing to do with Sarkhan is depends on the larger context.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2016 1:38 pm 
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Honestly what is the point of having Liliana get her pacts due to Bolas like... ??????? What does this do narratively besides introduce another contrived, arbitrary coincidence?

God I'm so glad I basically got out of the storyline before Origins, what a freaking mess.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2016 4:01 pm 
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It shows that Bolas has a lot of cool demon friends.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2016 4:16 pm 
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it shows that the multiverse is pretty small


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2016 4:19 pm 
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Lilan wrote:
it shows that the multiverse is pretty small
Well, more accurately, it shows that two 'Walkers who have been around for a very long time have crossed paths before and often deal with one another (though Bolas, as usual tends to deal with the upper hand).

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2016 7:16 pm 
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Honestly what is the point of having Liliana get her pacts due to Bolas like... ??????? What does this do narratively besides introduce another contrived, arbitrary coincidence?
Nnnnothing. I mean, on the one hand, they really tried to turn it into a reference to the prologue of Agents of Artifice and all that, but on the other hand, Liliana needing help to establish those demon pacts is pretty silly, especially for the one on Innistrad. And it's not like Bolas doesn't have his claws in enough random cookie jars already. They also completely failed to do anything with the setting. Not a single word in that story lets you guess it's supposed to be set on Dominaria, let alone where on the plane it is or what that military conflict is about. I'd say it's nothing compared to what they did to the other four 'walkers, though. Lili's character made it out of Origins relatively unharmed, and the irritating stuff about Bolas (and Kothoped having WINGS all of a sudden, wtf??? I still can't get over that) is partly counterbalanced by neat attention to detail in actually fixing a continuity error or two. (In one of the webcomics, the Raven Man makes a reference to "skulls dancing through the Caligo" the night they first met. That scene was only added in the Origins short story).

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 20, 2016 1:44 pm 
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Creatives currently trying to stitch the story together more, it seems. I feel like they're trying to make it more tight so they can actually get a narrative going. Thats fine, but they should have worked with what they already had, instead of scrubbing that away and replacing it with something that wasn't any better (and maybe worse). I feel like the change that Bolas helped lily find the demons was supposed to make the story tighter by adding more connections

It didn't work, but yah know.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2016 10:23 am 
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Obviously the goal of having Bolas help Lili was so they they would have a retcon reason to know each other, and potentially even give them a chance to wiggle Agents of Artifice back into the storyline cleanly, by giving a reason for Lili to work for Bolas.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2016 12:41 pm 
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With Bolas, not for Bolas.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2016 12:43 pm 
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Are you guys building your planeswalkers from preexisting characters? If you're having problems with your white Time Spiral 'walker, I would suggest someone that fancies themself an avatar of Serra. In an apocalyptic set, it would feel natural to have some people impersonating religious figures either in misguided earnestness or in an attempt to fleece the fanatics.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2016 1:32 pm 
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Jman22 wrote:
Obviously the goal of having Bolas help Lili was so they they would have a retcon reason to know each other, and potentially even give them a chance to wiggle Agents of Artifice back into the storyline cleanly, by giving a reason for Lili to work for Bolas.
Why do they have more of a reason to know each other after Origins than they did in AoA? I don't think Origins did much (or anything) to establish that connection. It's not like they retconned the prologue of AoA out of existence and the two wouldn't have known each other otherwise. And as far as Liliana and Bolas are concerned, AoA still fits their continuity anyway. Liliana would have sought Bolas's help to get rid of the demons either way. If anything, the new Bolas/demon connection would be a wrinkle in continuity because it's aaarguably a bit odd that it's not mentioned in said AoA prologue.

At the end of the day, there are things in Liliana's Origins treatment that bother me, and things that don't bother me or that I even like. And I can accept a webcomic being contradicted more readily than retcons to actual novels. The biggest problem are really the other four 'walkers.

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