It kind of is yeah

And yeah in retrospect I think probably the roll/role thing wasn't accurate but I did find it to be a lot harder, as a starting player, to think of my character as a character, because it was so strongly tactical combat focused compared to simulating a fantasy world (which I think 5e does a bit better in part by just tossing in all kinds of extraneous nonsense that doesn't really have a huge tactical purpose but which adds to flavor).

Honestly I think if 4e combat had been less grueling (god combat lasted FOREVER) and if it had been more clearly positioned as a tactical game from the start I probably would've gone in for it more as a game experience.

I would argue that combat in 4E was only as long and grueling as you let it become. If Chris Perkins could get the Acquisitions Incorporated celebrity 4e game at PAX to make it through about 3-4 set-piece fights and still have plenty of time for entertaining role-playing and crowd interruptions in just over two hours, I don't see why normal gamers can't as well. You want quicker fights? Increase the minion-to-monster ratio. Non-combat role-playing happens at about the same speed/rate regardless of edition. D&D has always been very rules-lite in this area for the same reason.

That said.....5th's not terrible. Sitting through the two-year beta test for it was a pain, but they ended up with an okay system when it all fell into place. There are only a few criticisms I have with it that are largely irrelevant.

I mean I'm sure you CAN make it work...

So, for the record and because there wasn't a better choiceto put it, SoI will only feature Jace as he searches for Sorin or Nahiri, keeping an eye open for Emrakul along the way. The rest of the moron brigade will stay on Zendikar to help and make sure Emmy isn't just chilling somewhere.

Wait, what? That's great news! Where is it from? Seems like whoever wrote that art book blurb had no clue what was going on then... Still means we almost certainly won't get a new Tamiyo card

Comes from the Zendikar art book.
After the finale, they set up the next block.
He's still on gatewatch business, so yeah, they pushed that to the forefront because they're going to try hard as hell to sell the Jacetus league as a brand...

I don't see why having the "Jacetus" league is necessarily a bad thing. Gerrard and crew was what, 5 years of magics history or something? If they are moving towards having the plot be linked more I don't think it's such a bad idea to have characters to follow. Plus if we keep following these characters then maybe they'll get around to the reason they needed to retcon some of their backgrounds and then the retcons won't seem as atrocious. I really do think more people are getting into the storyline and what they are doing is working and yes it may feel like they screwed over older storyline fans but it's not like they did it to be malicious.

And MaRo has said several members will likely be added or replaced as the focus like other superhero teams. And a Tamiyo card is still a possibility. Jace was also in the Zendikar storyline but did NOT get a card because Kiora got one. And if it's like last time on Innistrad the last thing I'd want to be doing is milling my opponent. Of course lately he has received self mill tools and even flashback so that does kind of work against her.

I never liked the Weatherlight crew and the way they dominated the storyline, so frankly I'm seeing nothing here that is good news for me personally.

Plus which, I honestly don't see "Planeswalkers as Superheroes" as a plus. If we want superheroes, there are tons of superhero properties to choose from these days. Planeswalkers have amazing potential to tell deep, personal, character-driven stories, but instead, Wizards wants to push them to be second-rate knock-offs of superheroes because it's what they perceive as "in" these days. The thing is, knock-offs never do as well as the originals. The more Wizards pushes "Planeswalkers as Superheroes," the less distinct their property becomes in the sea of other superhero properties. And the reason THAT's bad is because other superhero properties view their stories as their primary focus. Magic doesn't. That's not a dig, it's just a consequence of them being a trading card game first and a story franchise second.

The story (or rather stories, to be accurate) that Magic could tell is its ace in the whole. I genuinely think that limiting that potential to a small circle of characters is a mistake for them.

I'm not sure that's a good thing, though. It makes it harder to tell stories (especially stories about heroic characters) without involving the Gatewatch. It also makes it harder to tell small-scale stories. Every story involving the Gatewatch needs to be about a planar disaster.

I know it's a bit early for criticism, seeing as we haven't seen the Gatewatch in action, but most people here understand the basics of storytelling and I don't see a lot of really cool things coming out of this whole Gatewatch thing.

I know none of this is malicious, but I do think it's atleast a little misguided. They're diluting the personal connection we can form with these characters by shifting the focus to what action they are taking rather than the why or who. Planeswalkers as superheroes is a fundamentally sketchy idea because we simply don't have the space to genuinely explore the concept, meaning too much of it will end up distilled as "because they're heroes". I really don't like the motivations to boil down to "because gatewatch" instead of something personally compelling.

This doesn't even get into the fact that a centralized cast in an already relatively small roster will inevitably steal HUGE portions of an already limited spotlight in addition to cutting the possibilites of a more diverse cast. Now, we've honestly already had some of this problem already, after all, just look at all the Jace hate, but doubling down by intrinsically linking character motivations is a seemingly terrible way to solve that. At the very least, it makes personal stakes in a story interchangeable if they want to have a member of gatewarch there but already used the one that would be best in the role.

You also appear to be unaware how sick people got of the weatherlight at the time. So much so they switched to the planejumping model for a decade afterwards. I am glad to have a focus on connectivity though.

As someone who reads cape books, I can speak from experience this is virtually NEVER a good idea. It needs to be a major deal to shake up a roster and it better last a long long time to make it worth it.

And all this too.

They simply aren't going to be able to commit enough to do it justice.

Though admittedly, it also goes down to the fact that I don't think the aesthetics or formula meshes with Magic conceptually. "fantasy superhero" doesn't really... do anything for me. Not unless it's part of something contrasting the fantasy aspects.

In fairness, this is probably closer to the Fellowship of the Ring than the Avengers, but the aesthetic is a bit too modern to emulate the fellowship. And it goes back to the spotlight issue too. The question becomes who ends up the Legolas and who gets screwed over as the Pippin.

And I'm definitely not an expert on storytelling or writing so maybe its harder for me to judge and maybe I'm just easy to please because I always give everything the benefit of the doubt/silver lining treatment, but here's my opinion anyway.

Yes smaller stories might be harder to tell but I feel like every plot, at least since I started in Alara, has been a planar disaster pretty much so maybe I'm biased, but looking back I feel this way too. Even if "disaster" isn't the right term what is going on usually has large, planar ramifications (and maybe my definition of this is different than everyone else's). For example we don't know whats going on on Innistrad exactly but we do know that Jace is so far the only one to show up there. Meaning Lilliana will probably be there too. And we don't have a novel line anymore but now that uncharted realms is linked by its story, they have room to explore Jace and Lili's relationship even further like they did in that one from pre BfZ. So clearly the Gatewatch doesn't have to move as an entire group all the time, which frees 1-2 of them to go do their own thing, which is basically what they did before but the stories will be closer together know do to story focus and block structure. It took like, 6ish years for Elspeths story to resolve from Bant, to Mirroden, to Theros, and we saw several characters disappear, emerge, and then reemerge from her story, I assume it will be the same just closer together.

If we keep the comics comparison going, the Justice League is needed for wide scale disasters like Brainiac trying to destroy the Earth, or a Starro invasion, or something. But Batman and The Flash still have their own books and regular baddies to deal with, like Bane or Captain Cold. But sometimes maybe Superman will jump in and help in an issue or two, without the rest of the league. I think we are coming out of the Starro invasion and what we will be seeing more will be the issues of the individual heroes, with the occasional appearance of another Gatewatch member.



Yeah they lost the novel but they are definitely trying with uncharted realms. And again, I think the story has kind of always focused on the same couple of characters, everyone is just worrying about it now that they have a name. Think about in the last 6 years how often Jace, Elspeth, Ajani(who actually has as many cards as Jace and no one says anything), and Sorin have shown up in the storyline. Imagine if this had been the Gatewatch. Their appearances were few and far between but they have shown up in at least 3 blocks since I started playing, but not in each others stories all of the time (except AjanixElspth). I think the worry here is because now that the group has a name it'll mean something different but I don't think it will. I think it will just mean if someone needs help they'll now know where to find it.



I think I addressed this above, I don't think this will actually happen. MaRo has already thought they were kind of the superheroes of the multiverse, it's why their clothes are more elaborate versions of what is on their "home" plane. Now weather that has allows followed through with creative, I don't know.



As above, yes I was, I haven't been around that long.



I assumed that the rosters would probably last around 3 years at a time, as that would seem to me to be about the amount of time they need to tell a story and not have people be sick of the characters. As stated before Elspeth's story was three blocks. In the new paradigm that's 1.5 years. If each walker followed this than to have them finish there own sotry and to appear in another would maybe last them 3-4 years. I think that is a sufficient amount of time to be part of a team and to have members join and leave in this timeframe is probably okay. It could give stories completion while also allowing for a decent changeup in the lineup. I feel as Yxoque said its a little early to tell if this model will work, or how often, when, or how they will handle team roster changes.



Its obvious Tamiyo is Pippen, they don't even care enough about what she is doing do even give her a decent update in the "where are they now" features.

Idk, I guess I have a wait and see attitude to see if it pays off but I don't think it will be as bad as people think.

For the record, I wouldn't expect Liliana in Innistrad since the primary tire in is that Jace is going to find Sorin.

Isn't he looking for Nahiri? Are we to assume that she's there or that he detoured because his plane was in trouble?

No, Ugin told him to look for Nahiri. Sorin may have just said "screw it" and went home to Innistrad instead. Jace was then sent to go find him and started in Innistrad because it seemed like the most logical place to find Sorin.

This whole role for Jace is also counter-intuitive to his position as the Living Guildpact, which is my opinion is yet another thing they never should have done.

Eh, TonyJace has PepperLavinia managing Stark IndustriesRavnica in his absence.

Heh.

Hey Raven, I stumbled across an ~60,000 word document on my computer titled "AVR Novel," which I'm pretty sure was me saving the Avacyn Restored Novel that someone here or on the old WotC site was writing at some point. Was that you? And if so....any plans to finish it before/after SOI comes out?

That was not me. I want to say it was Deckhopper? I could be wrong, though, but I'm pretty sure Deckhopper was working on a long Innistrad piece.

I did write a novel, though, so if you ever want to check that out, it's in the M:EM Archive under The War of the Wheel. There was also a long, multi-author project on the old boards called Ravnica: Chain of Events which I pushed, and has now been completed and is on this forum now.

Yeah I saw that on the M:EMblr today and it reminded me that I had saved the AVR novel.