It is currently Thu Nov 28, 2024 8:41 pm

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 1349 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20 ... 68  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Sat Jun 17, 2017 4:12 am 
Offline
Member

Joined: Sep 22, 2013
Posts: 12283
Kithkin are just hobbits, but they can't use the name. They seem to want to distance themselves from halflings as well, mostly, I'd imagine, because of brand identity distinction.

But whatever a hobbit's schtick is, that's pretty much what the kithkin schtick is. Soooo... good-natured xenophobia and a love of food.

_________________
At twilight's end, the shadow's crossed / a new world birthed, the elder lost.
Yet on the morn we wake to find / that mem'ry left so far behind.
To deafened ears we ask, unseen / "Which is life and which the dream?"


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Jun 17, 2017 4:30 am 
Offline
YMtC Champ '11
YMtC Pro Tour Champion
YMtC Idol Winner
User avatar

Joined: Sep 23, 2013
Posts: 10665
Preferred Pronoun Set: he/him/my/mine/himself
Brady Dommermuth wrote:
It might be easier to talk about what the kithkin are not: They’re not dwarves or hobbits. They don’t have an unusual fondness for 'pipe-weed' or ale, they don’t go barefoot or burst into song more than other races, and they don’t take particular pride in their beards or gardens.

_________________
[Warchief] Custom EDH Project
you're like the kind of person who would cast Necropotence irl


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Jun 17, 2017 4:37 am 
Offline
Member

Joined: Sep 22, 2013
Posts: 12283
Mown wrote:
Brady Dommermuth wrote:
It might be easier to talk about what the kithkin are not: They’re not dwarves or hobbits. They don’t have an unusual fondness for 'pipe-weed' or ale, they don’t go barefoot or burst into song more than other races, and they don’t take particular pride in their beards or gardens.

And yet, the original kithkin turned up in the Legends I cycle and halfling was used interchangeably in that context.

_________________
At twilight's end, the shadow's crossed / a new world birthed, the elder lost.
Yet on the morn we wake to find / that mem'ry left so far behind.
To deafened ears we ask, unseen / "Which is life and which the dream?"


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Jun 17, 2017 5:12 am 
Offline
YMtC Champ '11
YMtC Pro Tour Champion
YMtC Idol Winner
User avatar

Joined: Sep 23, 2013
Posts: 10665
Preferred Pronoun Set: he/him/my/mine/himself
So the conclusion I should take is then that Lor/Sha Kithkins aren't actually Kithkins, because they aren't like Hobbits, and being like Hobbits is a part of the Kithkin core identity?

_________________
[Warchief] Custom EDH Project
you're like the kind of person who would cast Necropotence irl


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Jun 17, 2017 5:26 am 
Offline
Member

Joined: Sep 22, 2013
Posts: 12283
Mown wrote:
So the conclusion I should take is then that Lor/Sha Kithkins aren't actually Kithkins, because they aren't like Hobbits, and being like Hobbits is a part of the Kithkin core identity?

I'd argue that they are kithkins, but Brady was ultimately arguing for brand identity... because the Lor/Moor kithkin have a LOT of Hobbit traits despite his protestation that they don't.

Hell, one of the crucial scenes of Morningtide was Brigid ruining a plan specifically because she inappropriately burst into song!

The community orientation was also basically the Shire itself, with things that are 'different' being shunned. That was a tremendous part of the Shadowmoor identity, in fact.

About the only triat the Lorwyn kithkin demonstrate that is at odds with Hobbits is a fondness for heroics instead of the quiet life.

_________________
At twilight's end, the shadow's crossed / a new world birthed, the elder lost.
Yet on the morn we wake to find / that mem'ry left so far behind.
To deafened ears we ask, unseen / "Which is life and which the dream?"


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Jun 17, 2017 8:05 am 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Nov 15, 2013
Posts: 2388
Location: Roaming Dominaria
Barinellos wrote:
Mown wrote:
Brady Dommermuth wrote:
It might be easier to talk about what the kithkin are not: They’re not dwarves or hobbits. They don’t have an unusual fondness for 'pipe-weed' or ale, they don’t go barefoot or burst into song more than other races, and they don’t take particular pride in their beards or gardens.

And yet, the original kithkin turned up in the Legends I cycle and halfling was used interchangeably in that context.
Wait, there are kithkin in the Legends I cycle? Does it say they're from Amrou, and if yes, where Amrou is located? As far as I know, it's still one of those places of which we don't know the location, right?

_________________
"Enchant me with your tale-telling. Tell about Tree, Grass, River, and Wind.
Tell why Truth must fight with Falsehood, and why Truth will always win."
—Love Song of Night and Day


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Jun 17, 2017 11:03 am 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Mar 27, 2015
Posts: 1659
The Unknown Shadows from Soldiers Live have convinced me that the sidhe stuff of Lorwyn could be frightening under the right circumstances.

edit

And I am done with Soldiers Live.
Spoiler

_________________
Mordred: Omae Wa Mou Shindeiru

Flagg: Nani?


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Jun 17, 2017 10:07 pm 
Offline
Conqueror of Eldangard
User avatar

Joined: Sep 25, 2013
Posts: 14139
Location: Kamloops, BC
Identity: Male
I'm going to say it. Hobbits suck. THey just aren't interesting in any way. Well, the hairy feet thing's okay. Half of the hobbit/halfling/kithkin identity is already covered by another fantasy race that does it better. The other half is generic enough to apply to everybody. And two thirds of it is boring.

_________________
Cato wrote:
CotW is a method for ranking cards in increasing order of printability.

*"To YMTC it up" means to design cards that have value mostly from a design perspective. i.e. you would put them in a case under glass in your living room and visitors could remark upon the wonderful design principles, with nobody ever worring if the cards are annoying/pointless/confusing in actual play

TPrizesW
TPortfolioW


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Jun 17, 2017 10:33 pm 
Offline
YMtC Pro Tour Champion
User avatar

Joined: Sep 22, 2013
Posts: 14369
TPmanW wrote:
I'm going to say it. Hobbits suck. THey just aren't interesting in any way. Well, the hairy feet thing's okay. Half of the hobbit/halfling/kithkin identity is already covered by another fantasy race that does it better. The other half is generic enough to apply to everybody. And two thirds of it is boring.

This is one of the two reasons I don't hate Kender as much as some others do (because they bring in something vaguely new; the other being I never had to deal with someone roleplaying one to the hilt at the table).

_________________
"Enjoy your screams, Sarpadia - they will soon be muffled beneath snow and ice."

I have a blog. I review anime, and sometimes related media, with an analytical focus.

I'm a (self) published author now! You can find my books on Amazon in Paperback or ebook!
The Accursed, a standalone young adult fantasy adventure.
Witch Hunters, book one of a young adult Scifi-fantasy trilogy.


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Jun 17, 2017 11:13 pm 
Offline
Member

Joined: Sep 22, 2013
Posts: 12283
Barinellos wrote:
Mown wrote:

And yet, the original kithkin turned up in the Legends I cycle and halfling was used interchangeably in that context.
Wait, there are kithkin in the Legends I cycle? Does it say they're from Amrou, and if yes, where Amrou is located? As far as I know, it's still one of those places of which we don't know the location, right?

Amrou was never mentioned. They were mercenaries from the foothills hired by Johan.

TPmanW wrote:
I'm going to say it. Hobbits suck. THey just aren't interesting in any way. Well, the hairy feet thing's okay. Half of the hobbit/halfling/kithkin identity is already covered by another fantasy race that does it better. The other half is generic enough to apply to everybody. And two thirds of it is boring.
I'd like to see something closer to the leprechaun and sidhe that Hobbits took note from.

_________________
At twilight's end, the shadow's crossed / a new world birthed, the elder lost.
Yet on the morn we wake to find / that mem'ry left so far behind.
To deafened ears we ask, unseen / "Which is life and which the dream?"


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2017 1:53 am 
Offline
Conqueror of Eldangard
User avatar

Joined: Sep 25, 2013
Posts: 14139
Location: Kamloops, BC
Identity: Male
Barinellos wrote:
...
TPmanW wrote:
I'm going to say it. Hobbits suck. THey just aren't interesting in any way. Well, the hairy feet thing's okay. Half of the hobbit/halfling/kithkin identity is already covered by another fantasy race that does it better. The other half is generic enough to apply to everybody. And two thirds of it is boring.
I'd like to see something closer to the leprechaun and sidhe that Hobbits took note from.

I think elves cornered the market on sidhe aspects while the hobbits were away. LEprechaun would be a good direction though. Kender were a step towards that, but they could play up the mischievous angle further. I'm actually playing a brownie right now. I'm actually the Tarrasque though. Being a brownie's more like my cover, and I don't really understand the line between mischief and psychopathy.

_________________
Cato wrote:
CotW is a method for ranking cards in increasing order of printability.

*"To YMTC it up" means to design cards that have value mostly from a design perspective. i.e. you would put them in a case under glass in your living room and visitors could remark upon the wonderful design principles, with nobody ever worring if the cards are annoying/pointless/confusing in actual play

TPrizesW
TPortfolioW


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2017 2:29 am 
Offline
Member

Joined: Sep 22, 2013
Posts: 12283
TPmanW wrote:
I think elves cornered the market on sidhe aspects while the hobbits were away. LEprechaun would be a good direction though. Kender were a step towards that, but they could play up the mischievous angle further. I'm actually playing a brownie right now. I'm actually the Tarrasque though. Being a brownie's more like my cover, and I don't really understand the line between mischief and psychopathy.

Elves are a chimera of the sidhe and Alfir. Besides, elves have remarkably little to do with the actual Aes Sidhe beyond 'beauty'.

But that is splitting hairs.

Speaking of Leprechauns, anyone watching American Gods?

_________________
At twilight's end, the shadow's crossed / a new world birthed, the elder lost.
Yet on the morn we wake to find / that mem'ry left so far behind.
To deafened ears we ask, unseen / "Which is life and which the dream?"


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2017 7:13 am 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Sep 22, 2013
Posts: 7801
Yes, and it has been amazing so far.

_________________
magicpablo666 wrote:
You fell victim to one of the classic blunders - The most famous of which is "never get involved in an thread with GM_Champion" - but only slightly less well-known is this: "Never go in against AzureShade when card design is on the line!"


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 1:22 pm 
Offline
YMtC Champ '11
YMtC Pro Tour Champion
YMtC Idol Winner
User avatar

Joined: Sep 23, 2013
Posts: 10665
Preferred Pronoun Set: he/him/my/mine/himself
Barinellos wrote:
Mown wrote:
So the conclusion I should take is then that Lor/Sha Kithkins aren't actually Kithkins, because they aren't like Hobbits, and being like Hobbits is a part of the Kithkin core identity?

I'd argue that they are kithkins, but Brady was ultimately arguing for brand identity... because the Lor/Moor kithkin have a LOT of Hobbit traits despite his protestation that they don't.

Hell, one of the crucial scenes of Morningtide was Brigid ruining a plan specifically because she inappropriately burst into song!

The community orientation was also basically the Shire itself, with things that are 'different' being shunned. That was a tremendous part of the Shadowmoor identity, in fact.

About the only triat the Lorwyn Kithkin demonstrate that is at odds with Hobbits is a fondness for heroics instead of the quiet life.

Despite being the only magic books I have copies of, all of Lor/Sha is such a blur to me that I remember nothing but rough outlines.
A lot of the heroic nature of Kithkin probably comes in large parts because Lorwyn is a block about tribal warfare, and you can't have a tribe of creatures that don't participate. I do think they have a craftiness that exceeds Hobbits though, and their alchemical mysticism approach is quite neat.
I don't have the impression of Lorwyn Kithkin as notably xenophobic, they seem relatively friendly given the environments. Certainly in comparison to Elves, but they're also the top end of that spectrum. The Shadowmoor ones, on the other hand, have a paranoia to the point of perpetual anxiety that clashes with the more easy-going nature of Hobbits (although that might change if they were in the same circumstances.)

Regardless, the question was regarding the inclusion of Kithkin on other planes. What are the pillars of kithkinhood? Are they just midgets that could be any combination of colors, or do they have a dominant white trait?
Which also makes me wonder, are there any planeswalkers (or legendary creatures) that aren't of their race's dominant color?

_________________
[Warchief] Custom EDH Project
you're like the kind of person who would cast Necropotence irl


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 1:48 pm 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Nov 15, 2013
Posts: 2388
Location: Roaming Dominaria
Purraj of Urborg comes to mind, we don't usually see black cat people. Maralen of the Mornsong is unusual for Magic elves in general, though not for those on Lorwyn. But on the whole, I don't think there are many legends and 'walkers that are completely off colour and don't just splash. Maybe you could add Ugin for being a colourless dragon, but that's all that I can come up with right now.

The white trait that all kithkin share would be community I guess.

_________________
"Enchant me with your tale-telling. Tell about Tree, Grass, River, and Wind.
Tell why Truth must fight with Falsehood, and why Truth will always win."
—Love Song of Night and Day


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 10:57 pm 
Offline
Conqueror of Eldangard
User avatar

Joined: Sep 25, 2013
Posts: 14139
Location: Kamloops, BC
Identity: Male
Purraj of Urborg comes to mind, we don't usually see black cat people. Maralen of the Mornsong is unusual for Magic elves in general, though not for those on Lorwyn. But on the whole, I don't think there are many legends and 'walkers that are completely off colour and don't just splash. Maybe you could add Ugin for being a colourless dragon, but that's all that I can come up with right now.

The white trait that all kithkin share would be community I guess.

If I had my way cats would be black by default and Ajani would be the weird one.

_________________
Cato wrote:
CotW is a method for ranking cards in increasing order of printability.

*"To YMTC it up" means to design cards that have value mostly from a design perspective. i.e. you would put them in a case under glass in your living room and visitors could remark upon the wonderful design principles, with nobody ever worring if the cards are annoying/pointless/confusing in actual play

TPrizesW
TPortfolioW


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 2:21 am 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Sep 22, 2013
Posts: 1853
Location: Belgium
Identity: Wannabe Cyborg
Preferred Pronoun Set: He/His/Him
I think "community" is too bland for the Kithkin trait, but I also think you can narrow it down. It's not just a general sense of community, but a more familial or village sort of community. What we see of the Kor of Zendikar, for example, is a sense of community with all Kor and even all travelers, but the Kithkin's community sorta stops at the village border. That's something more specific to work with.

Housecats (and other cats, I guess) might be Black or Red, but the leonin are based on more communal species such as lions. I'd argue that housecats are also reasonably communal (given their evolutionary history), but their sense of community and cohabitation is vastly different from ours. Housecats are best compared with highly introverted humans in this regard. Their idea of having a good time together means quietly being in the same room, but doing different things.

_________________
"I'm all for screwing with the natural order. The natural order objectively is awful. The natural order includes death, disease, pain, and starvation." --Sam Keeper


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 2:32 am 
Offline
Member

Joined: Sep 22, 2013
Posts: 12283
Yxoque wrote:
I think "community" is too bland for the Kithkin trait, but I also think you can narrow it down. It's not just a general sense of community, but a more familial or village sort of community. What we see of the Kor of Zendikar, for example, is a sense of community with all Kor and even all travelers, but the Kithkin's community sorta stops at the village border. That's something more specific to work with.

That would be the xenophobia I ascribed them.
In shadowmoor it was central and overt, but it was still present in Lorwyn. Lorwyn was just a brighter, sunnier place and OH GOOD GODS, I just realized they were essentially the village from Hot Fuzz.

(the greater good)

_________________
At twilight's end, the shadow's crossed / a new world birthed, the elder lost.
Yet on the morn we wake to find / that mem'ry left so far behind.
To deafened ears we ask, unseen / "Which is life and which the dream?"


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 4:48 am 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Sep 22, 2013
Posts: 3845
Yxoque wrote:
Housecats (and other cats, I guess) might be Black or Red, but the leonin are based on more communal species such as lions. I'd argue that housecats are also reasonably communal (given their evolutionary history), but their sense of community and cohabitation is vastly different from ours. Housecats are best compared with highly introverted humans in this regard. Their idea of having a good time together means quietly being in the same room, but doing different things.


Domestic cats in Magic have always been . This is because they're domesticated animals, and sometimes have sacred duties (i.e. eliminate pests). Plus, purring has healing properties.

In this case, they're not so much 's community aspect (though cats do love their owners), but 's "tools". Like what zombies are for .

_________________
Matahouroa
Planeswalker's Guide
The Story

My Patreon:
https://www.patreon.com/Carliro
Image

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0DKFQ7Q38/ a book based on Lusitanian Mythology


Last edited by Heliosphoros on Tue Jun 20, 2017 4:51 am, edited 1 time in total.

Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 4:51 am 
Offline
Member

Joined: Sep 22, 2013
Posts: 12283
Yxoque wrote:
Housecats (and other cats, I guess) might be Black or Red, but the leonin are based on more communal species such as lions. I'd argue that housecats are also reasonably communal (given their evolutionary history), but their sense of community and cohabitation is vastly different from ours. Housecats are best compared with highly introverted humans in this regard. Their idea of having a good time together means quietly being in the same room, but doing different things.


Domestic cats in Magic have always been . This is because they're domesticated animals, and sometimes have sacred duties (i.e. eliminate pests).

In this case, they're not so much 's community aspect (though cats do love their owners), but 's "tools". Like what zombies are for .

Zombie Illusion Cat Beast for president!

...red doesn't have a tool race, does it?

_________________
At twilight's end, the shadow's crossed / a new world birthed, the elder lost.
Yet on the morn we wake to find / that mem'ry left so far behind.
To deafened ears we ask, unseen / "Which is life and which the dream?"


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 1349 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20 ... 68  Next

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group