It is currently Wed Dec 04, 2024 4:10 pm

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 221 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 8, 9, 10, 11, 12  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2016 10:33 am 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Nov 15, 2013
Posts: 2388
Location: Roaming Dominaria
I mean, I'm not saying that's really what's going to happen, but something like that would be an option. I'd really like to see it play out that way. I know that's how they explained Sigarda's immunity, but it's really a bit weak. And not only did Sigarda care most about humanity, she also cared most about the fourth sister (at least that's the impression I got from that story where she was mentioned). The revelation that the fourth angel was shielding her from beyond the grave would fit really well and make Saint Traft's geist-protection look like a deliberate hint in retrospect. I don't really think of her as a ghost in the ususal sense, I rather see Sigarda as a kind of angelic Horcrux for the others (speaking in Harry Potter terms).

_________________
"Enchant me with your tale-telling. Tell about Tree, Grass, River, and Wind.
Tell why Truth must fight with Falsehood, and why Truth will always win."
—Love Song of Night and Day


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2016 5:25 pm 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Sep 22, 2013
Posts: 3846
I hoped to see the Fourth Sister as having been right all along and that harmony with the dark forces would be necessary on the long run. But I feel this is too optimistic for Innistrad.

_________________
Matahouroa
Planeswalker's Guide
The Story

My Patreon:
https://www.patreon.com/Carliro
Image

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0DKFQ7Q38/ a book based on Lusitanian Mythology


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2016 5:58 pm 
Offline
Member

Joined: Sep 22, 2013
Posts: 12284
I hoped to see the Fourth Sister as having been right all along and that harmony with the dark forces would be necessary on the long run. But I feel this is too optimistic for Innistrad.

Eastern European zen just starts to sound like Nietzsche after a while.

_________________
At twilight's end, the shadow's crossed / a new world birthed, the elder lost.
Yet on the morn we wake to find / that mem'ry left so far behind.
To deafened ears we ask, unseen / "Which is life and which the dream?"


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2016 6:54 pm 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Jan 04, 2014
Posts: 1589
Location: New york city
Sigarda being immune actually made a lot of sense to me, being the angel of dispelling curses and such. There are some specifics on how angels and demons are made on innistrad, but ultimately there is a lot of wiggle room in terms of how they are made. It wouldnt require any retconning for them to be like "the essense of the arch angels works differently than the essence of other ones"

_________________
People being mad at me:
Spoiler


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2016 6:59 pm 
Offline
Member

Joined: Sep 22, 2013
Posts: 12284
Sigarda being immune actually made a lot of sense to me, being the angel of dispelling curses and such. There are some specifics on how angels and demons are made on innistrad, but ultimately there is a lot of wiggle room in terms of how they are made. It wouldnt require any retconning for them to be like "the essense of the arch angels works differently than the essence of other ones"

People like symmetry, so why would the archdemons be different?
Particularly since black is so much more about the individual ego than white.

_________________
At twilight's end, the shadow's crossed / a new world birthed, the elder lost.
Yet on the morn we wake to find / that mem'ry left so far behind.
To deafened ears we ask, unseen / "Which is life and which the dream?"


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2016 9:13 am 
Offline
Member

Joined: Nov 09, 2013
Posts: 1445
Well we know that demons on this world work differently by way of reincarnation.
There's no evidence that Innistradi angels are sufficiently distinct from other worlds in any meaningful way.


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2016 9:49 am 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Sep 22, 2013
Posts: 7801
I assumed that demons on Innistrad worked pretty much like they would anywhere else, except that the Hellmouth was a focal point location that facilitated the process. Like, if I up and killed a demon on Ravinca, the mana that makes it up doesn't cease to be. It lingers in the world and eventually gets around to forming a new demon. Angels and demons aren't born, they just sort of "happen." It's just on Innistrad, they just sorta happen in a specific place at a somewhat accelerated rate. The reason Avacyn got a handle on it all was that she had the Hellvault to store all those demons in instead of killing them and letting them respawn as new demons later.

_________________
magicpablo666 wrote:
You fell victim to one of the classic blunders - The most famous of which is "never get involved in an thread with GM_Champion" - but only slightly less well-known is this: "Never go in against AzureShade when card design is on the line!"


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2016 11:41 am 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Sep 22, 2013
Posts: 3846
In most planes, though, mana-construct beings don't necessarily reform; demons and angels can be formed, but individuals are lost forever, and whatever mana remains from them isn't necessarily going to create a new being.

Innistrad is unique because kind of its shtick is that death isn't forever, with undead beings like zombies and geists being the norm. It's odd that Innistrad's angels don't reform, though "I Am Avacyn" might imply that they do, since Avacyn claims she'd come back to fight Sorin again and again and "couldn't be destroyed".

Now, certainly neither the case for angels or demons, since Emrakul spawns can't be reborn.

_________________
Matahouroa
Planeswalker's Guide
The Story

My Patreon:
https://www.patreon.com/Carliro
Image

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0DKFQ7Q38/ a book based on Lusitanian Mythology


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2016 9:52 am 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Nov 15, 2013
Posts: 2388
Location: Roaming Dominaria
Barinellos wrote:
Eastern European zen just starts to sound like Nietzsche after a while.
"Will to Power" would be an amazing card name.

I really hope the next time we see Innistrad (which will probably happen in a few years), they'll follow it through and keep the look and feel of the place consistent the whole block, especially as blocks only have only two sets now. AVR was rather disappointing with its radical shift in tone, and as I said above, I find EDM at least as disappointing as AVR for pretty much the same reason. The ideal Innistrad block would be a mix of Innistrad, Dark Ascenssion and Shadows over Innistrad in both look and mechanics IMO. It would help a lot if the story happened on the plane rather than to the plane for once and there was no planewide disaster to turn the place inside out. They already have a lot of bits and pieces to work with. The return of the fourth angel could be a thing, Ormendahl really wants some involvement in the story, Halana and Alena are practically a given and will probably get a card, Olivia is probably the de facto ruler of the vampires now, Edgar Markov might dramatically reappear, Tibalt and/or Ashiok might show up etc. There's a ton of stuff that could be used for a more scaled down story and more consistent typical Innistrad flair.

_________________
"Enchant me with your tale-telling. Tell about Tree, Grass, River, and Wind.
Tell why Truth must fight with Falsehood, and why Truth will always win."
—Love Song of Night and Day


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2016 10:08 am 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Mar 27, 2015
Posts: 1659
@Pavor: How do you feel about the state of Innistrad at the close of this block vs the close of the first blovk?

_________________
Mordred: Omae Wa Mou Shindeiru

Flagg: Nani?


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2016 11:39 am 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Nov 15, 2013
Posts: 2388
Location: Roaming Dominaria
Story-wise it's hard to tell for sure because EDM's story isn't quite over yet, but it looks like some sort of balance between good and evil is reached at the close of both blocks (calling them 'good' and 'evil' for the sake of simplicity). The difference seems to be that at the end of AVR, both sides were at the height of their power, the bad guys because they had been left unchecked for too long, and the good guys because of Avacyn's return and sudden power boost. At the close of EDM, I expect some sort of balance to be restored as well, but that would be due to the fact that a lot of monsters as well as humans died and both sides are seriously weakened (assuming the Eldrazi mutants will just die when Emrakul is locked away). The plane is probably a lot more wrecked than at the close of the first block. And I think they didn't really know what to do with some of the characters in EDM, while it was a bit cleaner in AVR (then again EDM isn't quite over yet, and Tamiyo, Tibalt and Sorin didn't get any screentime in AVR either, so it's probably not that much of a difference in that regard).

Comparing the look and feel of AVR with that of EDM, I'm way less bothered by AVR. The problem I had with AVR was that there were suddenly angels and angel-related cards everywhere (and gryphs, which looked totally out of place for me back then), the werewolves and all other DFCs were just gone, and the whole thing was generally a lot lighter in tone (literally). But at least the horror things that were still there were allowed to be what they are; vampires were still vampires, ghouls were ghouls etc. With EDM, a lot of the formerly cool things were just ruined by being eldrazified. Sure, EDM has DFCs, but the werewolves are also de facto gone (Ulrich is kinda lame and the others are eldrazi on the back). Or take cards like Weirded Vampire. There is NOTHING about this amazing classic Nosferatu-inspired scene (vampires lifting themselves up from bed/coffin in gravity-defying way) that's in any way improved by having weird flesh structures growing out of the vampire's back. Vampire Horrors with tentacles and rubber-necks don't have a place in any of my vamp decks. I'd rather have less of a cool thing but at least see that cool thing done properly instead, as it was with AVR.

_________________
"Enchant me with your tale-telling. Tell about Tree, Grass, River, and Wind.
Tell why Truth must fight with Falsehood, and why Truth will always win."
—Love Song of Night and Day


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2016 12:49 pm 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Sep 22, 2013
Posts: 3846
AVR restored was triumphant, and if not for that demonic threat (which in retrospect was fixed) it'd be the perfect happy ending.

I like EM in that it did live up to being a cosmic horror and I do enjoy seing vampires and werewolves being assimilated by The Thing, but the consequences are very ambigous.

_________________
Matahouroa
Planeswalker's Guide
The Story

My Patreon:
https://www.patreon.com/Carliro
Image

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0DKFQ7Q38/ a book based on Lusitanian Mythology


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2016 2:54 pm 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Sep 23, 2013
Posts: 14004
Identity: Chaoslight
Preferred Pronoun Set: She
Nobody likes a happy ending.

_________________
altimis wrote:
I never take anytihng Lily says seriously, except for when I take it personally. Then it's personal.
WotC_Ethan wrote:
People, buy more stuff.
#WotCstaff
Spoiler

Image


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2016 3:27 pm 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Nov 15, 2013
Posts: 2388
Location: Roaming Dominaria
I was fine with the happy ending of AVR, and I understand they had to represent that through the set, I just wish they had toned it down a little bit on the cards and/or had a smoother mechanical transition between AVR and the other two sets. Mechanics can also shape people's perception of the tone or consistency of a set after all. Similarly, EDM has Meld and Emerge, which I don't really like because they're exclusively tied to the Eldrazi (and Meld is pretty clumsy all by itself), which I also don't like. And of course they avoided AVR's mistake of not having DFCs ever after, but all DFCs in EDM except Ulrich turn into Eldrazi as well, so again, they don't do anything for me. In the end, it all boils down to how you perceive the eldrazified stuff. SOI was absolutely amazing and I played the hell out of it, though, certainly the most fun set since the original Innistrad set. I think Innistrad really works best when it's just left alone and allowed to be Innistrad.

_________________
"Enchant me with your tale-telling. Tell about Tree, Grass, River, and Wind.
Tell why Truth must fight with Falsehood, and why Truth will always win."
—Love Song of Night and Day


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2016 10:41 pm 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Jan 04, 2014
Posts: 1589
Location: New york city
I know everybody really critical of avacyn returned, and I understand why, but it was a really fun set for me. The mechanics were cool and the quick mechanical switch changed the tone well (although it was a little jarring). I liked the campyness of it all

_________________
People being mad at me:
Spoiler


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2016 11:08 pm 
Offline
Conqueror of Eldangard
User avatar

Joined: Sep 25, 2013
Posts: 14141
Location: Kamloops, BC
Identity: Male
... Or take cards like Weirded Vampire. There is NOTHING about this amazing classic Nosferatu-inspired scene (vampires lifting themselves up from bed/coffin in gravity-defying way) that's in any way improved by having weird flesh structures growing out of the vampire's back. Vampire Horrors with tentacles and rubber-necks don't have a place in any of my vamp decks. ...

I actually really like that card. I took it as a fun poke at an old trope.

_________________
Cato wrote:
CotW is a method for ranking cards in increasing order of printability.

*"To YMTC it up" means to design cards that have value mostly from a design perspective. i.e. you would put them in a case under glass in your living room and visitors could remark upon the wonderful design principles, with nobody ever worring if the cards are annoying/pointless/confusing in actual play

TPrizesW
TPortfolioW


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2016 11:36 pm 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Sep 22, 2013
Posts: 3846
TPmanW wrote:
... Or take cards like Weirded Vampire. There is NOTHING about this amazing classic Nosferatu-inspired scene (vampires lifting themselves up from bed/coffin in gravity-defying way) that's in any way improved by having weird flesh structures growing out of the vampire's back. Vampire Horrors with tentacles and rubber-necks don't have a place in any of my vamp decks. ...

I actually really like that card. I took it as a fun poke at an old trope.


Same. It's both hilarious and disturbing.

_________________
Matahouroa
Planeswalker's Guide
The Story

My Patreon:
https://www.patreon.com/Carliro
Image

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0DKFQ7Q38/ a book based on Lusitanian Mythology


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2016 7:03 am 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Nov 15, 2013
Posts: 2388
Location: Roaming Dominaria
I'm sure poking fun at the classic trope was the intention, but that's just one of those things I would have liked to see played straight. I'm probably too much of a vampire fanboy and too fed up with Eldrazi to appreciate the joke. At least that card had a clever ironic idea behind it, but most other mutants are just plain ugly. And the odd flesh structure on Weirded Vampire looks really awkward, even if you like the idea behind the pose. As I said, I think people's enjoyment of EDM mostly depends on how much eldrazification they're cool with.

_________________
"Enchant me with your tale-telling. Tell about Tree, Grass, River, and Wind.
Tell why Truth must fight with Falsehood, and why Truth will always win."
—Love Song of Night and Day


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2016 11:00 am 
Offline
Member

Joined: Nov 09, 2013
Posts: 1445
Wizards has said that the clean break between sets like Rise and Restored and the rest of their respective blocks were, in hindsight, mistakes.


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 12:15 am 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Sep 23, 2013
Posts: 3673
Identity: Goblin Piker
LilyStorm wrote:
Nobody likes a happy ending.


speak for yourself there

_________________
Twitter: (at)MrEnglish22 if you want to reach me
My cube: https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/mrenglish22


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 221 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 8, 9, 10, 11, 12  Next

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group