I still haven't read past chapter 3 in the book, which I preordered, because of how badly they bungled everything. "Yes, let's introduce and then KILL OFF three or four characters with no explanation, and expect readers to know." I really had my hopes up for this.
If we go anywhere from here, it'll be based on the next set, considering how close to the chest WotC has been about it. I'd like to think they will introduce some new characters but that isn't likely anymore.
A bit of a necro, but in the middle of spoiler season Maro fielded this question. He neither confirms nor denies whether Theros has an Elysian Fields equivalent but it seems to be a strange question to answer at all, especially at this time. This feels like another piece in the puzzle I've been trying to put together for our eventual return to Theros. I have a theory that is almost certainly wrong but if you'll indulge me, read on.
Where we are right now
-Theros: I haven't had a chance to read Godsend yet, but from what I understand, Elspeth killed Xenagos, but was then speared by a fearful Heliod and sent to Theros's Underworld. The pantheon returned to its 'original' nine, Daxos was killed and Returned, and Ajani planted a seed of atheistic revolt in the people of Theros. -Gideon: Gideon sacrificed his life to defeat Nicol Bolas but was reunited with his Irregulars in a Heartwarming Redemption that makes no sense with what we currently know about the Therosian afterlife. Also died with hanging plot threads, specifically with Chandra. -Chandra: Haven't read the comics yet, but from what I've seen, Chandra is taking Gideon's death hard. Also confessed her feelings for Nissa which were probably reciprocated, but the book is poorly written so it's not 100% clear.
The Puzzle Pieces
-The Pantheon: With Xenagos dying in Nyx, he should be permanently dead leaving a RG sized hole in the Theros Pantheon. While the Gods my be okay with this arrangement, Magic players abhor an incomplete cycle. -Elspeth: When Elspeth was given the axe (or the spear), the Creative team made it very clear that her story wasn't over. We were given a teaser showing us Elspeth's death mask and more recently, Elspeth, Knight-Errant became a masterpiece depicting Elspeth in the Underworld holding her mask. -Death and sparks: According to Doug Beyer, sparks generally don't survive death. This presents a problem for bringing Elspeth back, unless they want to apply a caveat (which the masterpiece would imply). -The Underworld: When someone dies on Theros, they are taken to the Underworld, the sunless, nightless realm of Erebos, whom Heliod banished out of fear. I don't know if the exact means of transport have been established (what happens if you get eaten by a hydra, for example). -Hall of Heliod's Generosity: In Modern Horizons, we were introduced to a new Legendary Land depicting the stronghold of Theros's light. -Ravos, Soultender: In Commander 2016, we were introduced to Ravos. According to the Theros page, As an oracle of Athreos, the god of passage, Ravos knew the fleeting nature of life. Even so, watching his beloved perish in battle was too much for Ravos to bear. He bargained to help Athreos guide the dead to the Underworld in exchange for seeing his dead lover once each year. Now, Ravos plots his beloved's rescue, and secretly defies Athreos by escorting the dead back to the land of the living. -The Love Triangle: In Kaladesh, Chandra has the (I will never not use this pun) hots for Nissa while Gideon (from Theros) is in love with Chandra. -Ajani: Ajani has obvious connections to Elspeth and features in Chandra's comics. He also has an interesting parallel to Chandra in that both have lost very close friends with Theros connections. -The Immortal Sun: In the War of the Spark novel, Chandra had to activate the Immortal Sun and felt it's pull on her. The Sun holds the spark of Azor, parun of the Azorius Senate and uses sparks as power (Chandra used her spark to help fuel the sun when she turned it back on). While the planeswalkers debated whether to destroy it or use it as a weapon, the artifact is currently still around.
The whole picture
-Heliod, Erebos, and the Afterlife It would be an understatement to say that Heliod and Erebos have a bit of a rivalry. While Heliod may send champions like Gideon to thwart Erebos, Erebos gets them all in the end. But what if this wasn't the case? What if Heliod, in his generosity created (or coopted) a place where those that served him could be spared the fate of all Therosians? What if the Hall of Heliod's Generosity has a double meaning; as both the source of Theros's light and a place for Heliod's fallen to rest? This would explain how Gideon could find himself in a sunny afterlife surrounded by his Irregulars without being a hallucination brought about by his burning brain stem, thereby undermining the heartwarming part of his Heartwarming Redemption. -Chandra and Ajani on the Road to Hell: Ajani and Chandra have both lost dear friends. But what if there was a way to bring them back? Would you risk it all for one more day? It seems plausible that Wizards could want to tell an Orpheus and Eurydice style story with Ajani being Orpheus and Elspeth being Eurydice. Ravos could also play an important part, seeing how he is secretly bringing people back from the Underworld. -The Tenth God: I find it interesting that the two people that Chandra is closest to have connections to Theros...sort of. Gideon is obvious, but Nissa doesn't really have a connection. However, Chandra and Nissa together represent the missing color pair in the Theros pantheon. I don't know how Creative would tie it in, but I have a theory that I don't think will actually come to pass. In order to bring Gideon back from the dead, Chandra might have to give up something very important to her. Maybe the most important thing. The essence of her love for Nissa could then become the basis for a new RG god. This idea is more wish fulfillment than anything but I'll explain why I don't think it will go down that way later. However, Chandra and Nissa colors completing the pantheon feels too perfect to be coincidence. -The Greek Tragedy Let's assume everything goes well. Ajani manages to get Elspeth back from Erebos, hell, maybe Erebos is oddly cool with it, and Chandra brings Gideon back to life. Now our heroes are gearing up to leave Theros behind them. Just one little problem. Gideon and Elspeth don't have sparks anymore. They're stuck. All of our heroes efforts are for naught. They may be back in the world of the living, but it is only temporary. Erebos claims everyone in the end. Elspeth doesn't take it well. She's spent far too long in the darkness and her biggest reasons for staying (Daxos and a permanent home) are gone. Then Chandra comes up with an idea. We have an extra spark laying around; the Immortal Sun. We can give Elspeth Azor's spark. That leaves two problems however; Gideon is still s.o.l and the Immortal Sun is now useless. So Chandra comes up with another idea, one she isn't thrilled about. She can loan her spark to the Sun on the assumption she'll be able to get it back later (it's basically what Ugin was going to do with Azor anyway before that went sideways). Elspeth and Ajani are able to leave Theros (probably to go fight Phyrexians) while Chandra and Gideon get some much needed closure while she is on temporary hiatus.
Why the story could go in this direction
-Gideon's arc was a mess in War of the Spark. He never got a proper confrontation with his backstory (Chandra defeated Baral, Nissa 'trapped' Emrakul and killed the other Titans, Jace got his memories back, and Liliana put Josu to rest and got out of her contracts. Gideon never saw Erebos again except in his worst nightmares). Additionally, Gideon's relationship to Chandra was basically ignored after Hour of Devestation. Tying up these loose ends would make his death much more palatable. -Phyrexians are on the short list of threats to the Multiverse. With a return of New Phyrexia, we'll probably see a return of Koth. Creative might want to pull back on Chandra's involvement in the story so she doesn't steal the spotlight from Koth. -If Wizards know they are "killing off" Chandra soon, it would make sense to give her a last hurrah in the core set (similar to Nicol Bolas last year). Additionaly, Chandra's Regulator could put constraints on what future Chandra's can do; unless they aren't printing anymore for awhile.
Why it isn't going to happen
-Chandra is basically the face of Magic now. There is no way in hell Marketing is going to let you kill her off. -You think they're going to build up a relationship between Chandra and Nissa for three years just to throw it away? I mean they did it with Gideon.but that was a straight pairing. -Bringing Gideon back would fly in the face of what Nic Kelman said in his polygon interview promoting Signature Spellbook: Gideon
One little note -- in one of the Theros stories, focused on Kruphix, Kruphix revealed the ephemeral nature of the gods of Theros. He's the oldest, since he's born from primal wonder... or is that just what he was made to think? Heliod is fairly 'new' as Kruphix reckons things, but as soon as he was dreamed to be head of the pantheon, he had retroactively 'always been' head of the pantheon as Nyx reckons it. I think there may even have been a hint that while the current origin of Erebos is as the shadow of Heliod, Erebos actually predates Heliod; Death is a very primal concept, as old as the Mystery Kruphix represents or very nearly. his 'truth' was simply reworked when Heliod was dreamed up..
Kruphix also expressed sorrow at some of the gods that had been forgotten over the ages, naming the God of Love as one of the domains that had been lost. I imagine that Love was probably Xenagos's predecessor in . Can gods experience a Renaissance, and one lost by lack of worship be revived with new faithful?
Mortals are fickle, and more powerful than they know. By controlling the narrative, the powers that exist in Nyx can themselves be controlled. The seed Ajani planted, telling Elspeth's story, could pay off in a way more dramatic fashion than even Ajani could have predicted. Given her power set and theme this would also seem to be a great story to get Tamiyo involved in.
_________________
"Enjoy your screams, Sarpadia - they will soon be muffled beneath snow and ice."
I'm a (self) published author now! You can find my books on Amazon in Paperback or ebook! The Accursed, a standalone young adult fantasy adventure. Witch Hunters, book one of a young adult Scifi-fantasy trilogy.
Additionally, Gideon is not the first time we've seen a dead walker reunited with the departed loved one. Jeska was reunited with Kamahl upon her passing. It is, in fact, Theros that is the abhorrent keeper of the dead.
_________________
At twilight's end, the shadow's crossed / a new world birthed, the elder lost. Yet on the morn we wake to find / that mem'ry left so far behind. To deafened ears we ask, unseen / "Which is life and which the dream?"
@Tevish: I probably should have expanded on it, but I sort of implied that things weren't always the way they were in Nyx when I put "'original' pantheon" in quotes, although it probably should have been "x" instead of 'x'. I did forget that Kruphix specifically called out Love as one of the lost gods. I feel like that would reinforce the Chandra/Nissa connection but Kruphix's Insight was from 2014 and I don't think Creative planned that far ahead. Perhaps the story of their love rather than the essence would be enough to make a new god, although Xenagos had to go through a whole ritual to ascend to godhood. Another puzzle piece I forgot was Nissa herself. In Amonkhet, we see Nissa rewire Kefnet to make him stop assaulting her. The story downplays how much she did, but with time and practice(or plot convenience), she could rewrite the leylines that make a god (another reason I dislike Nissa; in comparison to her peers, her power level's upper limits are ill defined and kind of bullspit.).
@Barinellos: That's true, but it still doesn't explain how the Irregulars could greet Gideon if they died on Theros. They should be in the Underworld unless we handwave it away.
Did we ever get any more info on the Raven Man? Was he revealed to be Bolas in the War of the Spark novel (I haven't read it) or is he still unexplained?
Still unexplained as far as I know. Likely he'll be a piece of the Garruk arc they are starting with this new set though.
_________________
magicpablo666 wrote:
You fell victim to one of the classic blunders - The most famous of which is "never get involved in an thread with GM_Champion" - but only slightly less well-known is this: "Never go in against AzureShade when card design is on the line!"
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot post attachments in this forum