Macabre Waltz (Magic Origins or Dissension art)

I couldn't find the best flavour of (set name) threads, but that would be a good place to start.

How about adding the whole The Unspeakable combo ? 4 cards are hard to assemble, but so fun...
Maybe make UB a spirit/arcane archetype?
Probably an awful ideas.

Maybe let Phage live without wrapping a format around her ? I mean, she is just so cool, damn.
It isn't like building around her is easy... but it can be satisfying.

I insist on adding:
Nahiri's Machinations
Ongoing Investigation (If you do not get second ability's flavor, it is pathological anatomy.)
Behind the Scenes
Autumnal Gloom
They are as flavorful as uncommons get.
And also Seacoast Drake, and really, really watch Jesse Cox at Spellslingers. Whut? Itz a bluu crichur! It flaaiz along ze cost!


More suggestions :
Lilliana's Scepter (Quote, Liliana.)
Bone to Ash (Art, concept)
Bone Scrying (Art, concept)
Mogg Flunkies (Concept)
Vivisection (Flavor text, concept)
Llanowar Elves (Flavor text + the fact that everyone misses them.)

Porcelain Legionnaire
Spined Thopter
Vault Skirge
Slash Panther
Thundering Tanadon
All cards of the cycle are good for draft, have excellent flavor text, support artifact synergy, and have good concepts.


To add to Kiss of Amesha:
Juniper Order Ranger
Savage Ventmaw
Disciple of Deceit
Carnage Gladiator

I am going to admit that Ventmaw and Gladiator were chosen mostly for beautiful art, and their concepts or flavor are not that outstanding. I was too lazy to go through all existing ab uncommons.
Can we include Cauldron Dance ? It has beautiful concept, but does not fit into an average random RB strategy.

I think Anguished Unmaking should be in as well, and maybe Hero's Downfall. Structural Distortion has awesome artwork and flavour text and shows an important scene from the story.

@AzureShade:

I haven't added any of your support cards (yet), unless there are specifics that you really want in. Currently, each color has 4 Legendaries at Rare, so supporting only a few of them might not be great.

I also get your points on Maralen. Currently both she and Phage are on the list, but I'd be happy to cut them if other suggestions pop up, or if we cull some legendaries.

@Pavor:

I've added a couple of the artifacts you suggested, but with the dual lands at uncommon, there isn't a ton of room for them. What we could do is to just have allied dual lands, which frees up spaces for either multicolor cards or artifacts at uncommon.

I don't think there's room for a Curse subtheme. Blue-White seems to be going in the direction of an Enchantment/Pillowfort theme, but they don't have awesome curses. Maybe a couple of Black curses might get in, though.

There are currently 25 legends in the cube. Not all of them might stay in the final version, but that seems to be a good ballpark estimate of how much legendaries we can feasibly support. Much more and we'll have too many creature in the higher rarities.

@UselessCommon:

Phage is currently still in, but I don't think it's safe to let her in without acknowledging that she is a card that every color/archetype must be able to deal with. I'm not as much worried about building around her, but rather against building against her. Unlike other strong rares, she's not just a "must-kill" threat. You need to deal with her in one turn, or you've lost.

I agree that the enchantment cycle is fairly flavorful, but I'm hesitant to commit uncommon slots that might not support the archetypes in their colors. I also don't think the entire cycle is a hit, so I certainly don't want to automatically include all of them.

Could you at least link to the relevant video?

I've added Bone to Ash, Llanowar Elves and Mogg Flunkies. I sorta wanted Reckless Cohort in the slot where Mogg Flunkies would have went, but that card isn't worth putting more allies in for, probably.

I've also added the Phyrexian mana creatures, but I'm not a huge fun for balance reasons, as they're effectively colorless.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

Currently, the archetypes seem to be:

UW: Pillowfort Enchantments
BW: Something about balancing life-loss and lifegain
UR: Artifacts
BR: Seems to want to go in the direction of something discard-based but isn't getting there.
Green (probably with Red) seems to want to go ramp.
Black wants to partner up with someone for a good old-fashioned control deck, but can't figure out why to join.

Some suggestions of my own:

Skinshifter really sells the trope.
Steady Progress, for the flavor text. I'll drop it if Proliferate ends up completely useless.
War Report, for summing up a whole war with one card.

If those are the archetypes we are aiming for:

Blue/White Legendaries: If enchantments are going to abound, I'm sure auras will be needed as well.
- Rayne, Academy Chancellor
- Hanna, Ship's Navigator
- Too bad Barrin, Master Wizard doesn't do much with auras other than sacrifice them.
- Blue aura suggestions to pick from: Abduction, Anti-Magic Aura, Charisma, Claustrophobia, Curiosity, Dream Leash, False Demise, Invisibility, Malfunction, Mind Control, Narcolepsy, Private Research, Reduce in Stature, Robe of Mirrors, and/or Spectral Cloak.
- White aura suggestions to pick from (hilariously, the more flavorful auras are mostly Pacifism type cards): Arrest, Bound by Moonsilver, Coalition Flag, Defang, Ethereal Armor, Forced Worship, Ghostly Possession, Gift of Immortality, Guard Duty, Improvised Armor, Kjeldoran Pride, Muzzle, Pacifism, Revoke Privileges, Shackles, and/or Shadow Lance.

Black/White Legendaries:
- Ayli, Eternal Pilgrim (works with life-gain plan, also had some flavor text quotes on relevant cards)
- Daxos the Returned (can help support a player trying to make auras work since black wants other things to do besides life stealing.
- Gerrard Capashen (can fit into a life-gain deck and also would be a flavor win to cast Charisma on in a deck)
- Karlov of the Ghost Council (Uncle Karlov alone is better than the whole council)
- Sadly, Kokusho, the Evening Star, Seizan, Perverter of Truth, and tangentially Shauku, Endbringer are the only mono-black legendaries that would sort of support a life-stealing strategy and none of them are really that flavorful.

Blue/Red Legendaries:
- Good ideas: Arcum Dagsson, Feldon of the Third Path, Muzzio, Visionary Architect, Padeem, Consul of Innovation, Pia and Kiran Nalaar, and/or Slobad, Goblin Tinkerer
- Bad Ideas: Chandler and Joven

Black/Red Legendaries:
- Gonti, Lord of Luxury (gives you something to cast even when you are Hellbent with no cards)
- Greel, Mind Raker (is a discard legend)
- Infernal Kirin (could be fun if you were using spirits and/or arcane spells, but not very flavorful)
- Do not use Jaya Ballard, Task Mage! She is too pie breaking.
- Kyoki, Sanity's Eclipse (also not really flavorful, but fits the archetype)
- Latulla, Keldon Overseer (another old discard legend)
- Malfegor (more discard fun)
- Myojin of Night's Reach (the most flavorful of the Myojin and the most relevant to the archetype)

Green/Red: I've got nothing right now.

Pillowfort Enchantments you say? How about Righteous Cause, Ghostly Prison (preferably the Kamigawa version because of the more story relevant flavour text), and/or Propaganda?

Maybe the black control thing you suggest could lead to control? Could have some nice overlap with on the blue side. And a control deck with blue in it might be happy to run a few cards with Investigate for card advantage, so we'd have some overlap with artifacts. Wall of Frost and/or Fog Bank are walls that are reasonably flavourful and might want to go into control-y blue decks.

Not sure where to go with , but it might be a good idea to sprinkle in some vampires to help out Anowon (if he stays in). Doesn't have to be a full blown vampire tribal archetype, just some creatures that fit and happen to be vampires. I'd say if we go for discard, Jaya Ballard should be in there no matter what. She's way too cool to not use in a Vorthos cube, regardless of the little colour pie break. Maybe add Bitter Revelation and/or Ambition's Cost (Duel Deck version) for black card draw.


I guess Enthralling Victor is also pretty flavourful. And since we have more legends than I thought (yay!), it may or may not be worthwhile to add Time of Need.

In defense of Maralen: She's a support piece that kicks off a minigame, especially in multiplayer, which hardly strikes me as repetitive. True, in constructed, she's a "Tutor your engine" thing but with a limited strategy where having a great engine to protect her and tutor for is far less likely she becomes "push your luck" for each opponent -- how long can you tutor for gas before you HAVE to get rid of Maralen either because others are profiting more or because she's eating your life total far too quickly?

Phage was fine in Conspiracy 1.0 -- I'm not really scared of her because she costs a zillion, can't be cheated, has no evasion, and while she'll trade good has no special resistance to biting the dust to 4 points of combat damage -- but Commander Greven il-Vec could be a better black big hitter, adding in Hatred to coordinate for suicide If you want to support discard there's Volrath the Fallen

U/W Pillowfort Enchantments
Ghostly Prison (Kamigawa)
Propaganda (Tempest)
Worship (Saga)

U/R Artifacts
Master of Etherium
Etherium Sculptor
Reclusive Artificer
Sarcomite Myr

B/W Sapping
Agent of Masks
Tithe Drinker
Vampire Nighthawk
(In general, look to Extort commons?)

G/R Ramp
Frenzied Tilling. IMO this not only shows off one of the beautifully weird elements of the Invasion, but is also a good representative of strategy.
Fires of Yavimaya (not ramp but friend to ramp into fat)
Landfall?

U/B Control, possibly with a side of (Slow, proliferate-y) infect?
Sleeper's Robe
Spinal Embrace
Blighted Agent
Steady Progress
Inexorable Tide
Plague Stinger (I love how this thing's face mimics the crying mask of Yawgmoth, even if that is just me seeing things)

Suicide B/R
Magus of the Will
Magus of the Scroll (Great when your hand is empty/near empty, too)
Gibbering Descent
Cannibalize

1) Why no Juniper Order Ranger or Disciple of Deceit ? They are super flavorful AND good mechanically !
2) I dislike Ghostly Prison. It has a very bad correlation of concept (non letting you to be attacked) and flavor (imprisoning another player) Put Noble Purpose instead !
3) No one suggested anything GR ramp ? Savage Ventmaw ! (Art) Fireball ! Seething Song !
4) BR Suicide ? Magus of the Mirror ! Pale Rider of Trostad ! Beacon of Destruction ! All very flavorful !
5) UW defense enchantments? Mesa Enchantress ! Copy Enchantment ! Auramancer ! (Art and quote) Blessed Spirits ! Control Magic ! Metelis Astronomer ! Craken Hatchling !
6) UR Artifacts ? Aeronaut Tinkerer ! Ensoul Artifact ! Blade-Tribe Berserkers ! Shrapnel Blast ! Bludgeon Braw ! I think all UR artifact support cards are SO flavorful ! Confirm Suspicions ! Hoarding Dragon ! Embersmith ! Etherium Sculptor! Drooling Ogre
7) You know, Ongoing Investigation is a sweet overlap between UW enchantments, UR artifacts AND UG card draw. And even UB attrition, even, cause unblockability. So add it, please.
8) Advice : do not overfocus on archetypes. Add some random build-around cards, some random "Oomph c00l" cards, and so on. Creativity of players will fing a good use for them.

Teferi's Moat would fit the UW theme. And, obviously, I'd have to put in a plug for my girl, Bruna, Light of Alabaster.

Why we even care about rarity ?
Let's just make somewhat even split between common, uncommon, and rare, and call it OK.
We all know that common cards, on average, contain less flavor, and tend to be duds.
And the most flavorful cards are rare.

That is exceedingly inaccurate. Not only are there multitudes more commons and uncommons with the potential to be flavorful, being as simplistic as they are, those cards tend to lean more heavily on flavor to get their point across.

I know. I.e. Phyrexians cycle is very simple and yet very flavorful.
However, they can only show a very limited array of effects. And are almost never legendary.
Only rare cards can be as flavorful as Sleeper Agent, Bludgeon Brawl, or Hoarding Dragon.
Also, even split would allow us to fit all the best and most flavorful legends, making cutting process much less painful.


Random suggestions : Walk the Aeons, Door of Destinies, Day's Undoing, Figure of Destiny, Blinding Sniper, Reckless Spite, Serra Angel, Sengir Vampire, Zendicar's Roil, Starfield of Nyx, Prosperity, Phyrexian Revoker, Argentum Armor, Bearer of Heavens, Tooth and Nail, Sleeper Agent, Aethersprouts, Sea God's Revenge, Chained to the Rocks, Time of Need, Wall of Blossoms, Terra Stomper, Nissa's Revelation, Triskadekaphobia...

Chosen for pure awesomeness.



Best blocking phase in the history of MTG, and more !!! Yes, this is a video you SHOULD watch.

I don't know if we want to lock into archetypes just yet.

Some random stuff:
Civilized Scholar
Bane Alley Broker
Devour Flesh
Rescue from the Underworld - The game's mechanics really lend themselves to the flavour of reanimation, so I think that could be an archetype.
Hundred-Handed One

And the posts I mentioned earlier were apparently the Ultimate Flavor Chanmpionship series. It should be a good resource for a project like this.
The Dark Voting and Conflux nominations
Theros voting and Shards noms
Shards votes and Dark noms
Born of the Gods voting and Journey noms

Disciple of Deceit VS Bane Alley Broker : THE ULTIMATE SHOWDOWN !!!
I think Disciple's ability is more flavorful.

BW life gain: Tribute to Hunger, Child of Night (art, flavor text), Unholy Hunger, Grim Tutor, Ajani Pridemate, Syndic of Tithes, Riddle of Meditation, Phyrexian Arena.

I remembered another super flavorful and story-important card : Bident of Thassa. It also contributes to UR artifacts.

Busy day at work, so I won't be updating soon, but I did want to address a couple of things.


While I was updating the list, I wasn't confident I could slot in multiple multi-color cards but after sleeping on it, I think it's fine and even necessary.



Enthralling Victor should definitely get in :-) There's some room for additional legends, but even with the ones we have, Time of Need could be worthwhile.



Mostly because I decided to, but also because I like the restriction of building a cube to the standards of an actual set.


I'm not sure if I can disagree more and if I have the time, I'll actually gather some numbers on this. Suffice to say, I think Ethercaste Knight is more flavorful than any of the cards you mentioned. The examples you gave are good implementation of particular tropes, but they are no better than, say, Invisible Stalker, Intimidation Bolt, or Reassembling Skeleton. (Consider all those suggestions.)



Pretty much agreed. I think HairlessThoctar said that most sets have an archetype for each two-color combination. Even with a focus on allied colors, we should still aim for that. At this point, we don't have enough cards to clearly have archetypes, but we do have some indications. Like, Red-Black will definitely be discard based, so we need support for that. Blue-White is leaning heavily towards enchantments. White-Black is doing the life-drain thing. Most of those make sense, because they're the archetypes Wizards has been pushing towards in modern design.



I'm considering shifting Rise from the Grave down to common, just to make room for Rescue from the Underworld.

"I'm considering shifting Rise from the Grave down to common, just to make room for Rescue from the Underworld."
100% good idea.

"I'm not sure if I can disagree more and if I have the time, I'll actually gather some numbers on this. Suffice to say, I think Ethercaste Knight is more flavorful than any of the cards you mentioned. The examples you gave are good implementation of particular tropes, but they are no better than, say, Invisible Stalker, Intimidation Bolt, or Reassembling Skeleton. (Consider all those suggestions.)"

1) I was mistaken. I admit.
2) But what is so awesome about Aethercaste... Oh, I see. It exemplifies progress, rationality and transhumanism in a very MTG world.

Let's add more Simics, Izzets, and blue Phyrexians, then.

There's a lot more to Ethercaste Knight than that. I'm just gonna copy-paste a comment from reddit I once posted.

Okay. But I still do not see it as outstandingly flavorful... It is also pretty pale mechanically.

The easiest way to scope out archetypes would be to find ten or so "build around me" uncommons that push certain archetypes and were flavorful. It'd be even better if there were ten mono-color and ten gold cards, but that may be asking too much.

Maybe could do with some more Unearth, Flashback, Delirium, Madness and Hellbent in a non-parasitic dose. Here's a possible pool of flavourful and not super terrible cards to choose from (it got a bit out of hand and I aplogize in advance:



Maybe we could add Blade of the Bloodchief if there's a sacrifice/counter/dying matters subtheme somewhere. Plus, it's an equipment which may or may not turn out to be relevenat for (might work well with combat tricks and burn there because it kills stuff), and it's another not 100% parasitic vampire synergy.
Elves of Deep Shadow (The Dark) is a bit narrow but could be in for the enthralling artwork.
Frankenstein's Monster is a bit of a wordy mess with awkward counters, but hey. Might go into the discard deck or support a graveyard theme if one should arise.
Mangara's Tome is basically a "write your own spellbook" toolkit and references a major character from Mirage.
Amber Prison also features prominently at least twice in older lore. both this and Mangara's Tome might be nice for control.
Hurkyl's Recall is a scene from The Brothers' War and works both in and against an artifact deck. Possibly a bit narrow, though.
Ugin's Insight might help out a control deck (or any other slow blue deck really). Could conceivably work in because it cares about high mana cost.
As we seem to have quite a few artifacts and enchantments, Terashi's Grasp might be a nice additon (flavourful and would also work well if ends up getting cards that care about lifegain). Then we have Annul (Mirrodin version), which has good flavourtext and shows Chromatic Sphere being destroyed, which is a fun easter egg.
Krark-Clan Grunt is a bit of a semi-flavourful bread an butter card (the flavour text is fun, though) that might help the artifact deck and would also work well with equipment if it should turn out to be relevant.