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PostPosted: Sat Nov 28, 2015 9:15 pm 
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Cato wrote:
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The set features a land that taps for infinite mana only if your opponent has taken no damage and only if it is the first and only time this game you have tapped the land for mana.

hahahahahahano.

what, is there anything powerful you can do with infinite mana turn 1?

:duel:

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 29, 2015 1:38 am 
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 29, 2015 1:44 am 
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Hey it still dies to removal so inherently not OP

Obviously.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 29, 2015 2:08 am 
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It's kind of funny.

I miss Lorwyn less because OriginsNissa showed up there.

And I despise her as much as I've ever hated anything in Magic.

I actually feel kind of accomplished. I've seen so many of you seethe against things in Magic and I just kind of went with the flow, but everything about how she was handled transitioning from the old world order to the new fills with me with white hot rage.

SUBJECT CHANGE

I have no expectations of anything this dramatic ever making it out of the discussion stage at Wizards. I like weird designs as much as anyone else (the summer multiplayer set and Commander are typically my favorite releases these days) but this is too weird and too niche.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 29, 2015 8:45 am 
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It's kind of funny.

I miss Lorwyn less because OriginsNissa showed up there.

And I despise her as much as I've ever hated anything in Magic.

I actually feel kind of accomplished. I've seen so many of you seethe against things in Magic and I just kind of went with the flow, but everything about how she was handled transitioning from the old world order to the new fills with me with white hot rage.
You're one of us now! One of us!One of us! :laugh:

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2015 1:30 pm 
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What about Utoparia?

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2016 11:03 pm 
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I'm currently working on a plane that had it's colours distorted by an oldwalker sometime before the brothers war. The planeswalker destroyed all sources of black mana, thinking it as 'evil' and replaced it with plains, as well as dividing the others into the own separate regions, and made it impossible for non-white aligned beings to cross into other regions. He also made a new mono-white empire to rule the entire plane. this also effects the creatures e.g, blue/red vampires, blue elves and green/red sphinxes.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 23, 2016 2:49 pm 
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Yxoque wrote:
Lorwyn's failure had more to do with mechanical bloat than with the worldbuilding.

It's been described as both by MaRo on several occasions.

Apparently, Lorwyn wasn't "tough" enough for the average magic player.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 23, 2016 3:37 pm 
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This is the same average player that tried to convince me that killing half the planeswalkers would be "more realistic."

I'm not very big on violence, but I think I might enjoy punching the "dark and gritty" part of nerd-dom in the gut.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 23, 2016 3:47 pm 
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I wouldn't say half, but death should have weight in a story.

I don't think that's a problem for us, because they just killed Venser and Elspeth.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 23, 2016 5:44 pm 
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Yxoque wrote:
This is the same average player that tried to convince me that killing half the planeswalkers would be "more realistic."

I'm not very big on violence, but I think I might enjoy punching the "dark and gritty" part of nerd-dom in the gut.


This.

I hate the toxic masculinity part of fandoms. Not every show needs WK40,000 levels of dark, emo, crappy edginess, yet they insist that everything from MLP to Care Bears should be like that, not even for ironic purposes, just sincere stupidity.

Curiously, this appears to be dying down in favour of either soap-opera drama or the exact opposite direction, saccharose cuteness.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 23, 2016 6:19 pm 
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I like edginess if it's done a certain way. Like Batman or Tarrantino. Or crazy foreign films. This guy I work with has been lending me horrible horrible great movies that are far above hostel levels of bad. Don't watch Michael Haneke movies. (or do, they're good.)

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 23, 2016 7:12 pm 
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There's a difference between professional handling and fan handling. I'm ranting against the latter.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 23, 2016 7:21 pm 
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Sure sure sure, but fans are probably better at storytelling than wizards.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 23, 2016 9:45 pm 
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Yxoque wrote:
This is the same average player that tried to convince me that killing half the planeswalkers would be "more realistic."

I'm not very big on violence, but I think I might enjoy punching the "dark and gritty" part of nerd-dom in the gut.


This.

I hate the toxic masculinity part of fandoms. Not every show needs WK40,000 levels of dark, emo, crappy edginess, yet they insist that everything from MLP to Care Bears should be like that, not even for ironic purposes, just sincere stupidity.

Curiously, this appears to be dying down in favour of either soap-opera drama or the exact opposite direction, saccharose cuteness.


40K is a silly setting that rips its aesthetic from the Hawkmoon novels...and the Chaos symbol from the Elric novels...but what most of what gets labeled as "dark and gritty" isn't at all "dark and gritty" if you see where it comes from in your characters. Or setting, or both - and it all flows through naturally.

Injecting it into a kid's cartoon is the penultimate act of silliness, though. Not knocking anyone who enjoys that kind of thing, but why do you need to experience it through the lens of a cartoon for kids?

My own take on the dark and gritty thang: I just like it when events unfold naturally. For example - young lad, a bit on the hotheaded side, decides to spite his father by releasing some very dangerous thugs from his father's dungeons. Thugs pretend to be friendly, then kidnap the lad and use him as leverage to escape. Once free, the young lad decides on a course of self-preservation that sees him impressing the thugs with his viciousness. Viciousness which does include sacking and burning peasant towns, among other raiding-related activities...but he does still save the world, so there's your act of heroism. Its a very interesting road to that final act of heroism, which I enjoy reading about.

or,

A former prisoner of war whose braggadocio got him captured by the enemy and subjected to the enemies' GITMO-like interrogation techniques. Which left said prisoner a crippled, toothless, incontinent shell of his former self...who finds his joy in working as an inquisitor for the government. Getting confessions through torture, doing what needs doing to keep the system running smoothly. Again, there's a basis for what you might call "dark and gritty," though his work is done to help keep an insanely barbaric religious empire at bay, though the top of the chain of command for the torturer's empire had no qualms about using a magical nuke to beat back the religious barbarians....more stuff that might get called dark/gritty, but with the proper foundation laid and motivations explored.

The thing with Magic's story is - I don't know if it has time to establish that properly given the structure of the storyline. Except in the case of Tezz; I can see why he is the way that he is...it was a fun ride for me, not so much for Tezzeret, I'd imagine.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2016 6:08 am 
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This is the post that prompted my post:

Something someone on reddit typed


I wouldn't say half, but death should have weight in a story.

I don't think that's a problem for us, because they just killed Venser and Elspeth.


I'm not saying that characters shouldn't die. I've been saying Jace should die for ages now. My problem is people who think that "lots of people dying" is more realistic than talented people overcoming challenges. Both can be realistic and which one happens should depend on the needs of the story.

This.

I hate the toxic masculinity part of fandoms. Not every show needs WK40,000 levels of dark, emo, crappy edginess, yet they insist that everything from MLP to Care Bears should be like that, not even for ironic purposes, just sincere stupidity.

Curiously, this appears to be dying down in favour of either soap-opera drama or the exact opposite direction, saccharose cuteness.


I think dark and gritty stuff has its place. I like reading things about WH40K, even if the game or its stories don't really appeal to me. I like their dedication to setting, theme and tone and some things like the Machine Priests are things I genuinely enjoy. Those and Cathedral Ships. I also like things like the SCP-Foundation or Worm, which are really, really bleak. What I don't like is, indeed, people coming up with lazy fan theories about the implied horrors of some kids' show. My real problem with that is that "people" can't seem to enjoy things that are genuinely nice and friendly. My Little Pony is a prime example. It's a show that is genuinely about friendship, niceness and (often) peaceful conflict resolution. Those are important messages, even for adults, but "adults" somehow felt the need to make it dark and evil in order to enjoy that property. There shouldn't be shame in liking pastel-colored worlds of genuine niceness.

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I like edginess if it's done a certain way. Like Batman or Tarrantino. Or crazy foreign films. This guy I work with has been lending me horrible horrible great movies that are far above hostel levels of bad. Don't watch Michael Haneke movies. (or do, they're good.)


Tarantino knows how to tell stories and shoot movies. The "edginess" makes his movies work. You can't get away with the ending of Inglourious Basterds, for example, if you don't tell the rest of the story as an ultra-violent revenge flick. Batman, when Batman is done right, is the same, although I don't think Batman is the best example here because there's an inherent silliness about a rich man beating up (mostly poor) criminals while dressed as a bat.

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Sure sure sure, but fans are probably better at storytelling than wizards.


Some fans.


My own take on the dark and gritty thang: I just like it when events unfold naturally.


The problem with that approach, for me at least, is that there often is one way events unfold naturally. Events, characters, environments, settings, etc. are all based on choices the creator(s) make(s). Sometimes you really want or need to tell a story with all amoral characters, vicious violence, anti-heroes, etc. and that's alright. I already mentioned Inglourious Basterds and Worm earlier and I think those are good examples, but you need to keep in mind that they both involve choices made by the creator. (In the latter work less so, because the writer of Worm decided some things with a D20, but even that's a choice.)

Lately I've been feeling that people don't treat stories in that way. I've had several discussions about Oath of the Gatewatch, for example, where people were arguing that Wizards really couldn't tell any other story given the events of Battle for Zendikar without acknowledging the choices Wizards made leading up to Oath and Battle.

Or to give a different example: Black Widow's and Hulk's relationship in Age of Ultron was stupid. Apparently the earlier Age of Ultron script included an end-credit scene in which Black Widow was outed as an imposter (setting up her own movie). They scrapped that end-credit bit, but they've kept the stupid romance in. That romance wasn't an inevitable outcome of the story's events. It was based on many choices made by many people. Choices that could have been made differently.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2016 11:37 am 
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I like the outline. I don't like the author's interpretation. I don't read Kiora as being a fickle bitch. I see someone who made her choice and stuck with it.

I forgot to add: humor to fit the flavor works very well. Take the inquisitor I mentioned. There's a scene where he's ferreting out a traitor from among his retinue of practicals. So he spends a good while mutilating the traitor to get a confession. In the end the traitor's left dead...and the inquisitor realizes that the other practical that was in the room with him the whole time was the traitor. I forget what tipped him off, but I thought it was a hilarious turn of events. So humor's essential to the overall feel as well.

Or, in a book dealing with revenge - a hit went wrong. Instead of poisoning a specific banker, the protagonist and her crew ended up poisoning most everyone in the bank. It was kind of funny in a "well, ****, we done **** up" kind of way.

On the whole, the overall tone should be done in service to a theme of interest to the creator. If the creator is tackling themes that he feels very strongly about, then an ugly setting may reflect those themes better than a more pristine one.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2016 11:43 am 
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You have to admit though, at least half of the current walkers suck and should die.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2016 12:28 pm 
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I would like to see a planeswalking Umezawa in UBR. Resembles Tetsuo Umezawa, turns out to be an identity that Bolas created for use as a disguise. I want the old dragon to get some development and take an active hand in the storyline again.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2016 12:38 pm 
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LilyStorm wrote:
You have to admit though, at least half of the current walkers suck and should die.


Well, of the new walkers I think only Sarkhan, Bolas, Sorin and Nissa serve no purpose as characters other than being a pinacle of douchebagness in a self-righteous light, a Mary Sue and the two icons of Creative indifference respectively, and should burn.

Neither Narset, current Garruk or Domri are particularly appealing as they are, but I can see potential.

Jace, Ob Nixilis, Gidein and Chandra showcase varying degrees of writting quality, so if nothing else they're tolerable.

The rest are okay to amazing.

Venser, the brattiest of them all, is now in hell, so we do not have to contend with him.

I would like to see a planeswalking Umezawa in UBR. Resembles Tetsuo Umezawa, turns out to be an identity that Bolas created for use as a disguise. I want the old dragon to get some development and take an active hand in the storyline again.


Oh, yes.

I actually came up with a Umezawa planeswalker who's been traumatised by Bolas' retribution and decided to become a dragon hunter.

Now she's on Tarkir, laying waste to the scum

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