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 Post subject: Re: Neon Dynasty Story
PostPosted: Sat Feb 26, 2022 11:15 pm 
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I am partly biased because my very first set I started with in terms of lore was the original Mirrodin block. I still have the books on my shelf so Scars was a bad time for me. It was just me watching everything I thought was cool get dragged into a body horror mess that I just didn't enjoy.


I'm not trying to dismiss your feelings, but Mirrodin was doomed from the start. The end of The Fifth Dawn where everyone died/got reincarnated on a new plane was supposed to set up a New Phyrexia block where the twist was that the plane used to be Mirrodin. But then they decided they wanted to tell the story of Mirrodin's subjugation, which is a little difficult to do on a world with three people. This led to the Vanishing retcon with mixed results. I only mention this because this helped temper my expectations for Scars. That said...

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Seeing Tamiyo get compleated was a gut punch which I suppose makes it a narrative success but it just feels bad.


I agree with this 100%. I'm not really looking forward to playing the "which fan favorite expendable character gets compleated next for the ultimate angst" game for the next x years. It would be one thing for characters to die fighting the Phyrexians, but compleation is a fate worse than death. It might not be a popular opinion, but I hope there is some sort of "cure" or reversal availabe seeing how compleated 'walkers still technically have a soul. I know that might lessen the "stakes" but blech.


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 Post subject: Re: Neon Dynasty Story
PostPosted: Sun Feb 27, 2022 1:56 am 
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In general, I don't disagree* and it's made me consider the contrast between the two situations we find ourselves in. All the characters in the original Phyrexian arc were contributing to a larger whole and felt like everything was building towards more and more. It rewarded the investment, even if it meant tragedy.
But the walkers? They don't build to anything. They are each a nation unto themselves, so seeing the threat coming, the worlds and characters in danger? It punishes the investment you put into them.

*What happened to Tamiyo has, in fact, killed my interest in building decks for Planeswalkers. I mean, the desire had been anemic after the majority of recent sets, but that really spoiled my investment.

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 Post subject: Re: Neon Dynasty Story
PostPosted: Sun Feb 27, 2022 6:12 pm 
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I guess we'll have to wait and see.

I may be in the unpopular opinion but I hope there isn't a cure. Tamiyo is to me essentially dead, just a Yawgmoth-spawned thing wearing the remnants of her corpse. This may sound heartbreaking considering how she was a genuinely likeable character, but its a feeling of despair extremely rare in modern Magic and I crave it.

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 Post subject: Re: Neon Dynasty Story
PostPosted: Mon Feb 28, 2022 12:00 am 
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I think the ending that would satisfy me the most is Tamiyo's mind being restored, but she remains a biomechanical monster in body. It would be super interesting to see how people (especially her family) would interact with her in such a state.

Tamiyo permanently staying Phyrexianized would be second-most acceptable, followed by Tamiyo being 100% cured in third and last place. But I'd be fine with any of those endings as long as it's executed well.

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 Post subject: Re: Neon Dynasty Story
PostPosted: Mon Feb 28, 2022 3:46 am 
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The thing about mentally cured phyrexians is that I don't think its possible. Compleation is a mental as it is physical; without the oil and its effects there's no surviving the extreme alterations.

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 Post subject: Re: Neon Dynasty Story
PostPosted: Mon Feb 28, 2022 4:57 am 
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On the other hand, we've seen free-willed Phyrexians before. Xantcha and Urabrask are probably the most notably independent, in that we normally consider Xantcha a "good guy" and there was certainly a read like that for Urabrask, but it's easy to forget because they were all still villains that a lot of oldschool phyrexians were still treacherous gits with their own agendas. Ertai, Crovax, Volrath, Belbe and Gix all wanted their own things, which were not necessarily what Yawgmoth wanted

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 Post subject: Re: Neon Dynasty Story
PostPosted: Mon Feb 28, 2022 9:40 am 
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On the other hand, we've seen free-willed Phyrexians before. Xantcha and Urabrask are probably the most notably independent, in that we normally consider Xantcha a "good guy" and there was certainly a read like that for Urabrask, but it's easy to forget because they were all still villains that a lot of oldschool phyrexians were still treacherous gits with their own agendas. Ertai, Crovax, Volrath, Belbe and Gix all wanted their own things, which were not necessarily what Yawgmoth wanted


To add on Urabrask and other red phyrexian act the way they do since they have emotions and a basic kind of empathy, which phyrexian don't typically have. Tamiyo, and other compleated pw, also have still have their souls so that might also play a factor in similar ways with how the red faction does.

From the legends article I think they are setting up Nashi being a planeswalker so I could seem them truly killing off Tamiyo but having her transfer her spark somehow to Nashi and have him become the new story planeswalker in her memory.


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 Post subject: Re: Neon Dynasty Story
PostPosted: Mon Feb 28, 2022 12:15 pm 
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"I'll give you the in-world and behind-the-scenes answers.

In world: 1,200 years ago, there was a general belief that the kappas had died. It turns out they hadn't. The same thing has happened in our world many times. All of the following creatures have been declared extinct only to later show up still alive: Arakan Forest Turtle, Chacoon Peccary, Coelcanth, Cuban Solenodon, Goblin Shark, Gracilidris, Kashmir Musk Deer, Majorcan Midwife Toad, Monito del Monte, Monoplacophoran Mollusks, Mountain Pygmy Possum, New Guinea Big-Eared Bat, Laotian Rock Rat, Naked-Backed Fruit Bats, New Guinea Singing Dog, Night Parrot, Nocturnal Gracilidris Ant, Palehouse Earthworm, Pygmy Tarsier, Stubfoot Toad, Tahake Birds, Terror Skink, and Tree Lobster."

Are you satisfied?

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 Post subject: Re: Neon Dynasty Story
PostPosted: Mon Feb 28, 2022 8:10 pm 
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VLW wrote:
Quote:
I am partly biased because my very first set I started with in terms of lore was the original Mirrodin block. I still have the books on my shelf so Scars was a bad time for me. It was just me watching everything I thought was cool get dragged into a body horror mess that I just didn't enjoy.


I'm not trying to dismiss your feelings, but Mirrodin was doomed from the start. The end of The Fifth Dawn where everyone died/got reincarnated on a new plane was supposed to set up a New Phyrexia block where the twist was that the plane used to be Mirrodin. But then they decided they wanted to tell the story of Mirrodin's subjugation, which is a little difficult to do on a world with three people. This led to the Vanishing retcon with mixed results. I only mention this because this helped temper my expectations for Scars. That said...

Quote:
Seeing Tamiyo get compleated was a gut punch which I suppose makes it a narrative success but it just feels bad.


I agree with this 100%. I'm not really looking forward to playing the "which fan favorite expendable character gets compleated next for the ultimate angst" game for the next x years. It would be one thing for characters to die fighting the Phyrexians, but compleation is a fate worse than death. It might not be a popular opinion, but I hope there is some sort of "cure" or reversal availabe seeing how compleated 'walkers still technically have a soul. I know that might lessen the "stakes" but blech.


I agree that Mirrodin's ending left the plane a dead end so they needed to retcon it or do something else with it. That's totally fair and understandable but I feel like they could have played somehow with the fact that the plane is artificial and subject to a possible collapse. Perhaps a sort of "man vs. nature" thing as the various groups come together to find a way to save their plane. I could even see something like Tezz trying to steal the artifact that they're making to stabilize the world so we can have a villain who is in line with the artifact theme. I can live with the retcon of everyone getting yeeted off the plane but I didn't want to see the plane itself die like that. I think having compleated walkers stay biomechanical horrors would be interesting, particularly if they have to live with the aftermath of what they've done. It could lead to some really interesting narrative growth and personal challenges. It kind of echoes Seven of Nine from Star Trek: Voyager, and how she had to sometimes deal with her Borg drone past.

I fully agree with you that a walker dying is sad but has more moral satisfaction for me than seeing them get compleated. Their narrative would have an arc and an end, but from a marketing standpoint it's worse to kill them off since then it's A LOT harder to reuse them later while compleation offers the chance for future appearances.

On a personal note, thank you for saying you weren't trying to dismiss my feelings and I never would've thought that. This forum has some of the best posters I've come across.


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 Post subject: Re: Neon Dynasty Story
PostPosted: Mon Feb 28, 2022 8:15 pm 
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So, fun fact about Mirrodin:
Even though the planet itself is artificial, it was built in a naturally occurring planar void because Karn knew artificial plants were inherently unstable.

The actual planet, additionally, is only roughly the size of Earth's moon.

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 Post subject: Re: Neon Dynasty Story
PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2022 7:53 am 
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FYI: the neon dynasty survey is up on the mothership.

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 Post subject: Re: Neon Dynasty Story
PostPosted: Wed Mar 02, 2022 6:06 pm 
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Barinellos wrote:
So, fun fact about Mirrodin:
Even though the planet itself is artificial, it was built in a naturally occurring planar void because Karn knew artificial plants were inherently unstable.

The actual planet, additionally, is only roughly the size of Earth's moon.

Oh neat! I thought the plane was always under threat of, basically, decaying away so I didn't know that it was considered to be stable now. Thanks for the bit of info!


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