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 Post subject: Future for dwarves
PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2016 10:43 pm 
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So now that they are in Kaladesh, we can presume that, if the set is successful, they are here to stay. Furthermore, they have shifted from being a race to one of the fifty million ones. In context, it makes a lot of sense, since in a proper scifi-world dwarves are going to obviouly be the voice of structure and tradition.

Still, given Depala we still have some ties to , which is continuing Shadowmoor's theme would mean that dwarves are the facto race they were always meant to be, hopefully fluctuating to either depending on the set.

I hope that there are dwarves one day, however. Greed + having originated as maggots.

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 Post subject: Re: Future for dwarves
PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2016 12:09 am 
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I definitely suspect dwarves will be going forward. I wouldn't rule out a colour bleed, but they're going to be red and/or white by default. I also see artifacts remaining a theme with them. Might end up have decent overlap with soldiers, but beyond that I can't hazard a guess.

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 Post subject: Re: Future for dwarves
PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2016 12:18 am 
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Hopefully they'll finally solve the issue of a white characteristic.

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 Post subject: Re: Future for dwarves
PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2016 12:31 am 
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Barinellos wrote:
Hopefully they'll finally solve the issue of a white characteristic.


I've been making that argument since at least original Zendikar.
Fingers crossed.

I hope they make them have the visual variety of the other characteristics. Just looking like short humans in every set bores me.


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 Post subject: Re: Future for dwarves
PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2016 3:22 am 
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Barinellos wrote:
Hopefully they'll finally solve the issue of a white characteristic.


I've been making that argument since at least original Zendikar.
Fingers crossed.

I hope they make them have the visual variety of the other characteristics. Just looking like short humans in every set bores me.

By the same merit, let's hope they have better sense than to repeat the mistakes they made with duergar and play less variety than with goblins.

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 Post subject: Re: Future for dwarves
PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2016 7:41 am 
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Barinellos wrote:
Hopefully they'll finally solve the issue of a white characteristic.


I don't know. Sure, they can be on some planes like Kaladesh, but dwarves tend to favour things isn't well known for, like alcoholism, macho aggression and being gritty and dirty, which makes them lean a lot towards . Other races like the kor and leonin generally work, if for no other reasons than being blank slates.

That said, I already have some ideas for and dwarves, stressing on tradition and greed, respectively.

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 Post subject: Re: Future for dwarves
PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2016 1:20 pm 
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Barinellos wrote:
Hopefully they'll finally solve the issue of a white characteristic.


I don't know. Sure, they can be on some planes like Kaladesh, but dwarves tend to favour things isn't well known for, like alcoholism, macho aggression and being gritty and dirty, which makes them lean a lot towards . Other races like the kor and leonin generally work, if for no other reasons than being blank slates.

That said, I already have some ideas for and dwarves, stressing on tradition and greed, respectively.

They aren't likely going to slow dwarves to do negative things anymore because they'd look bad for "company values" like why they nuked elvish racism.

And the big thing really comes down to resonance. Kor is a nothing term and leonin are slightly better in that regard, but still don't have a defining nature really.

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 Post subject: Re: Future for dwarves
PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2016 2:17 pm 
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Dwarves could still be bad guys. The bad guys are allowed to be bad, it's just morally complex protagonists we can't have. Now I'm worried about Lili.
I would love to see leonin go away. Are they pretty popular, or if cat people showed up in another colour would people be fine with it?

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*"To YMTC it up" means to design cards that have value mostly from a design perspective. i.e. you would put them in a case under glass in your living room and visitors could remark upon the wonderful design principles, with nobody ever worring if the cards are annoying/pointless/confusing in actual play

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 Post subject: Re: Future for dwarves
PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2016 2:25 pm 
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Before cat people were white, they were green more often than not.

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Last edited by Barinellos on Tue Sep 13, 2016 3:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Future for dwarves
PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2016 3:16 pm 
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I blame Savanah lions.
Personally I'd like to see cats in black, but green and even blue seem like improvements.

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Cato wrote:
CotW is a method for ranking cards in increasing order of printability.

*"To YMTC it up" means to design cards that have value mostly from a design perspective. i.e. you would put them in a case under glass in your living room and visitors could remark upon the wonderful design principles, with nobody ever worring if the cards are annoying/pointless/confusing in actual play

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 Post subject: Re: Future for dwarves
PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2016 5:21 pm 
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Well, leonin are lions, which only really fit in . Other catfolk readily fit into other colours.

I think they are appropriate as the signature race, and sometimes they have been genuinely interesting like the feral, atheist Theros leonin.

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They aren't likely going to slow dwarves to do negative things anymore because they'd look bad for "company values" like why they nuked elvish racism.


Being drunken **** is a mile away from being genocidal.

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 Post subject: Re: Future for dwarves
PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2016 12:48 am 
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This post from Doug, highlighting earlier conversations of Dwarves as a potential white characteristic race, lead me to believe they will be the default white characteristic race going forward.

http://dougbeyermtg.tumblr.com/post/150 ... -old-posts


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 Post subject: Re: Future for dwarves
PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2016 5:34 am 
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I dont get that impression even a little.

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 Post subject: Re: Future for dwarves
PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2016 10:31 am 
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Well, leonin are lions, which only really fit in . Other catfolk readily fit into other colours.

I think they are appropriate as the signature race, and sometimes they have been genuinely interesting like the feral, atheist Theros leonin.

Quote:
They aren't likely going to slow dwarves to do negative things anymore because they'd look bad for "company values" like why they nuked elvish racism.


Being drunken **** is a mile away from being genocidal.


Truth. All the drunks I knew tend to get happy.

Should they bring in a thoughtweft-esque theme?

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 Post subject: Re: Future for dwarves
PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2016 10:35 am 
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No, that'd make their overlap with kithkin too obvious. When people say that dwarves are is more due to their focus on tradition and structure, not on the bonds between community.

The dwarves I thought of, for example, would be more akin to, say, what the Dromoka are to Selesnya or innistradi humans. Communal and group-focused, yes, but with a heavier emphasis on the dogmatic side.

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 Post subject: Re: Future for dwarves
PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2016 10:59 am 
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Mmm. A lot of dwarf-themed cards from Apocalypse were in Blue and Red, with Guided Passage. I'd like to see this revisited somewhere down the line.

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 Post subject: Re: Future for dwarves
PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2016 1:47 pm 
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IMO Dwarves, at their most resonant core, have a "Work hard, Play hard" kind of existence. They're known as great crafters and have a reputation for being taciturn sticks in the mud at least when 'on duty'. Work matters to a dwarf, they love work and if they don't well then they put their noses to the grindstone and do it anyway. But they are also drinkers and revelers, and as per non-rageaholic red, they can be artists (if in the flavor of sculptors and inventors) making things that are innovative and beautiful as well as high quality, functional, and true-to-form. Since most creatures in M:tG are 'doing their job' I see Dwarves as a good :w: typical race, even if they have some of those familiar :r: traits.

Most of the characteristic races have another color or two that they favor bleeding into -- Elves are :g: but a recognizable minority crop up :b: (Shadowmoor in :w:, and some simic/Trest :u: but less so. None I can think of in :r: of all things, unless you count Radha, who's half-keldon), Vedalken sometimes affiliate themselves with white-including groups or show their azure mugs on hybrid or multicolor :u::w: cards (far more often than they give :b: or :g: the time of day, at least. Again, you won't find them in :r:), predominantly :w: catfolk also hang out with their roots in :g: and :b:, it's no accident that Tarkir's Cat Demon Rakshasa fell into that color scheme. So I'm totally okay with "Dwarves are :w:. If a dwarf isn't (mono) :w:, it probably has :r: in its identity."

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 Post subject: Re: Future for dwarves
PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2016 1:52 pm 
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Vedalken sometimes affiliate themselves with white-including groups or show their azure mugs on hybrid or multicolor :u::w: cards (far more often than they give :b: or :g: the time of day, at least. Again, you won't find them in :r:)
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 Post subject: Re: Future for dwarves
PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2016 1:55 pm 
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hm, once more we have a single legendary exception, only even I forgot that one. Still, it seems that while Red has had a crudload of main characteristics it's gotten a little short on people taking it for their secondary.

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 Post subject: Re: Future for dwarves
PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2016 1:59 pm 
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To be fair, Nin is part of the Izzet League, so maybe it's more of the guild's influence over her than an expression of her inner self. Though the Flavor text does imply she enjoys her work.

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You fell victim to one of the classic blunders - The most famous of which is "never get involved in an thread with GM_Champion" - but only slightly less well-known is this: "Never go in against AzureShade when card design is on the line!"


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