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PostPosted: Thu Apr 29, 2021 9:11 pm 
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Dragons maze is a definitive answer that, yes, you definitely cannot skip dragons. Doubly so if you name the set after it.

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PostPosted: Sat May 01, 2021 6:38 pm 
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I'd be totally okay with dragons being the founders of the colleges if they weren't fake Elder Dragons. Both Tarkir and Stixhaven are settings that have other issues that make me not want to support them anyway, but the inclusion of "Elder Dragons" that aren't actually Elder Dragons would be enough to put me off any set or setting on its own. If they ever want me to boycott any given new set on principle, including more of those is a foolproof way of achieving that. I simply refuse to tolerate that sort of violation and disrespect, it was wrong on Tarkir and it is wrong now.

You know what would be cool, though? More mono-colour legendary dragons in all colours. There are even some examples from The Dragons of Magic that they could put in supplemental products (because most of them actually die in their stories).

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PostPosted: Sat May 01, 2021 9:50 pm 
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I've long been a proponent of off color icons.
Except hydras, I just hate hydras.

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PostPosted: Sun May 02, 2021 12:38 pm 
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Barinellos wrote:
I've long been a proponent of off color icons.
I'd say it works much better for dragons than for any other iconic type, though. Personally, I have a hard time imagining a sphinx that's neither :w: nor :u: for example. Angels are also difficult because they are embodiments of :w: mana by default, although I like the off-colour ones we've seen so far because they usually had a plausible justification (Fallen Angel and Co. being twisted by black magic, the :r: angels on Innistrad that were warped by Emrakul, the Valkyries on Kaldheim being part of a :w: / :b: pair of psychopomps). Demons are the hardest to move out of their core colour entirely. They are technically the :b: counterpart of angels, but there's a lot less precedent for non- :b: demons than there is for non- :w: angels. Plus, the idea of the corruption of something "good" is probably a lot easier to sell than its opposite.

On a semi-related note, I won't rest until we get male angels back. Not as anything as female connotated as Valkyries, but in a way that makes sense.


Barinellos wrote:
Except hydras, I just hate hydras.
I quite like hydras actually. Granted, the generic :g: hydra isn't that interesting from a flavour-standpoint, but I think they have a lot of untapped potential to spalsh/be moved into different colours (which they have already done quite a bit). They started out as :r: on Dominaria and Rath, back in the day when their "heads" were represented as dealing damage, then they were moved to :g: where the "heads" now tend to come in the form of +1/+1 counters. The original hydra from Greek mythology lived in a swamp, and I could totally see splashes of :u: or :b: working for hydras.

And colours aside, their mutability and multi-headedness make them great candidates for being merged with other creature types. Apex Devastator's flavour is golden, I can't imagine a better creature type than Chimera to throw into the mix. Things like Capricopian work in small doses, and I really like the various Snake and Plant Hydras that we've seen so far. The Turtle Hydras from Eldraine are a cool new take, and giving errata to Ulasht, the Hate Seed to make it a Hellion Hydra was a really flavourful decision IMO. In fact, I've been a proponent of more multi-headed dragons in Magic (I love Two-Headed Dragon), and making a Dragon Hydra that combines the mechanical space of both types could be really awesome.

You know which other creature type would have been an amazing choice for the founders of Strixhaven? Djinn. Those have already appeared in all colours, although nowadays they are basically the red-headed stepchildren of the other iconics. This whole idea of dragons being born from clashing mana really rubs me the wrong way (on top of them being "Elder Dragons"). Dragons are supposed to be biological creatures, not manifestations of mana. The dragonstorms on Tarkir were just as stupid, if not more so... (I will admit that it makes sense for the original Elder Dragons to have been spawned by The Ur-Dragon, though. The first generation of dragons had to come from somewhere after all). To me it kinda looks like they are constantly trying to double down on all the "Elder Dragon" nonsense of the last few years in a desperate attempt to at least make it all feel connected and meaningful, although none of it really is. First they made that mess on Tarkir with the dragon storms and the dragonlords suddenly becoming "Elder Dragons", then they retconned Ugin to be Bolas' twin and thus an old school Elder Dragon himself, and now we have more "Elder Dragons" that were spawned by magic. They've been playing this game for so long that nothing about it has any meaning to it anymore, least of all the idea of an Elder Dragon. But if you took the origin of the Strixhaven dragons and changed them to be djinn instead, it would make perfect sense.

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PostPosted: Sun May 02, 2021 12:54 pm 
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Barinellos actually has a plane with biblically inspired angels in all colors. Personally seraphs that are dragon/angel hybrids are in must in , or both.

Sphinxes could be in either as protectors or feral animals, though you'd probably have to make them flightless as in Egyptian art. Hydras would fit well in flavourfully (they're aquatic after all) as well as mechanically due to all the counters.

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PostPosted: Sun May 02, 2021 1:22 pm 
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Barinellos actually has a plane with biblically inspired angels in all colors. Personally seraphs that are dragon/angel hybrids are in must in , or both.
Huh, that sounds kinda cool actually. I could see that working just fine, but it's also a pretty narrow niche as far as Magic as a whole is concerned. Without having looked into that plane, I assume the biblical angels are one of the defining features of said plane, right? Basically the special thing that's supposed to set it apar from other planes? And yeah, I'd say creatures with twin types (like Dragon Angel) are usually easier to justify as having their respective colours.

Sphinxes could be in either as protectors or feral animals, though you'd probably have to make them flightless as in Egyptian art.
I mean, a :g: flightless sphinx would be a pretty big departure from what sphinxes usually are in Magic... I think dragons can be almost anything and still be resonant and somewhat recognisable as dragons because both the fantasy genre as a whole and the legends that inspired it have such a weird variety of different dragons. Magic in particular has a lot of different kinds of dragons that have only appeared in the books but not on the cards. But sphinxes in Magic feel pretty logged in at this point, so to speak. Not saying I couldn't imagine a particular plane where they are different for some reason, but that would be a pretty big exception, and I don't think most people would "get it".

Hydras would fit well in flavourfully (they're aquatic after all) as well as mechanically due to all the counters.
Agreed.

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PostPosted: Mon May 03, 2021 1:53 am 
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THat comment about how the founders of Strixhaven could have been djinn really drives home just how weird a choice dragons were for that role. Djinn, demons, angels, sphinxes, archons and even treefolk would have been more logical choices. I just don't connect dragons and academia in my mind.

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PostPosted: Mon May 03, 2021 9:21 am 
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I don't think archons would be a good choice since they're basically living incarnations of dogma. You could make a commentary about how mainstream education is that, but if don't at least angels have plausible deniablity since they can simply see education as a means of helping.

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PostPosted: Mon May 03, 2021 1:10 pm 
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TPmanW wrote:
I just don't connect dragons and academia in my mind.
Well, I guess they... have really big heads? :paranoid:

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PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2021 10:40 pm 
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Is there anything we really know about Arcavios beyond it being the location of Strixhaven and "something something mana whirls"? Could this set have taken place in say, Fiora, where the Conspiracy sets are centered? That would have struck me as a decent choice. Paliano would still be the city of politics and Strixhaven could be the academic center. I guess Fiorans just have a thing for single-focus cities.

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Cato wrote:
CotW is a method for ranking cards in increasing order of printability.

*"To YMTC it up" means to design cards that have value mostly from a design perspective. i.e. you would put them in a case under glass in your living room and visitors could remark upon the wonderful design principles, with nobody ever worring if the cards are annoying/pointless/confusing in actual play

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PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2021 12:52 am 
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Arcavios is way more expansive and has loads more history and worldbuilding than Fiora. If anything, it's not that Arcavios is small enough to fit on Fiora, it's that Fiora is small enough to fit on Arcavios.

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PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2021 8:50 am 
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This. It's kind of funny, that Arcavios feels more like a fleshed out world yet people are whining about it while Fiora is literally just a city state for now and it's beloved.

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