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 Post subject: Re: Marit Lage
PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2016 1:16 am 
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Aaarrrgh wrote:
Marit Lage is actually three Phyrexians in a trench coat.

The trench coat is made of Elder dragon.

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To deafened ears we ask, unseen / "Which is life and which the dream?"


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 Post subject: Re: Marit Lage
PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2016 2:15 am 
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Maybe she is an living child of love between Emrakul and Yawgmoth ?
^_^

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 Post subject: Re: Marit Lage
PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2016 5:49 pm 
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I enjoy the age of this post, i was just looking for history or a story of merit lage. My argument against the idea that she is not a planeswalker, is that in her story it is directly stated that she is "said to have the ability to traverse the planes", I believe that this would be a great story to work around. The merit lage token is actually the avatar of lage, and therefore maybe the avatar cannot be a planeswalker but there is no definitive proof that her physical from cannot be. I just enjoy the idea that possibly a Gigantic creature such as merit, could actually be a small woman, with incredible power. However i do not enjoy that this forum seems to shoot down ideas as they were completely false, instead of trying for an argument against it as an average person would do. It's like Donald Trump "WRONG!"

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 Post subject: Re: Marit Lage
PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2016 6:23 pm 
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It's not that we directly don't want to have a conversation about it-its that the creators of mtg's story have said that she's not a planeswalker. It'd take a retcon or two to make her a planeswalker, and we all know how this forum feels bout retcons. It'd especially be salty for a lot of people because I think people miss when there was more interaction between planes, where people and creatures besides planeswalker and eldrazi could go in between planes.

It's not that people are dismissing u, its that there is a solid answer to this question.

Discussing what it means that her "card" was an avatar is definitely an interesting conversation, tho. Avatars usually represent some higher force or concept, so how does a gigantic indestructible 20/20 represent her?

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 Post subject: Re: Marit Lage
PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2016 9:48 pm 
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It's not that we directly don't want to have a conversation about it-its that the creators of mtg's story have said that she's not a planeswalker. It'd take a retcon or two to make her a planeswalker, and we all know how this forum feels bout retcons. It'd especially be salty for a lot of people because I think people miss when there was more interaction between planes, where people and creatures besides planeswalker and eldrazi could go in between planes.

It's not that people are dismissing u, its that there is a solid answer to this question.

Discussing what it means that her "card" was an avatar is definitely an interesting conversation, tho. Avatars usually represent some higher force or concept, so how does a gigantic indestructible 20/20 represent her?

That is what i was trying to argue for, there seems to be very little interaction between planes. I know i said that she should be a planeswalker, but i guess i am admitting that i misspoke. She has the ability to traverse the planes, and me being the partial newbie in the lore behind anything before Ravnica, did not know that any beings besides those considered "Planeswalkers" could actually traverse the planes, besides the eldrazi of course.

I am extremely intrigued on what Merit Lage is in her actual form. She has never been introduced as anything besides the AVATAR token. Wizards could use just her story to almost rewrite the history before Iceage. I have a few questions about her though.
~Has there been any other references to Ms. Lage past the release of Dark Depths and the cooresponding Merit Lage token?
~What is the actual definition of a planeswalker, and when is Ms. Lage discredited as a planeswalker?
~Has there been any further descriptions or legends beyond what i already know "extremely powerful mage whom has the power to manifest an an incredibly powerful avatar oh and this being can traverse planes"?
~If Ms. Lage has the ability to traverse planes what prevents her from being classified as a Planeswalker?
~If Ms. Lage can manifest as a 20/20 Indestructable Avatar, How powerful would she be in her actual physical form?
Now after thinking of those questions for a bit, answer me this, could Merit Lage be the most powerful being in the multi-verse?

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 Post subject: Re: Marit Lage
PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2016 10:10 pm 
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~Has there been any other references to Ms. Lage past the release of Dark Depths and the cooresponding Merit Lage token?

She was mentioned, in passing, during the Eternal Ice, but card wise, yes.
Curse of Marit Lage
Wrath of Marit Lage
Brine Shaman
Quote:
~What is the actual definition of a planeswalker, and when is Ms. Lage discredited as a planeswalker?
a planeswalker is any sapient being who was born with a spark, a vague piece of the soul believed to be a shard of the eternities. Few of those born with it awaken to their potential.
The Eternal Ice explained she wasn't a walker, meaning she didn't have the spark and accompanying powers of a walker.
Quote:
~Has there been any further descriptions or legends beyond what i already know "extremely powerful mage whom has the power to manifest an an incredibly powerful avatar oh and this being can traverse planes"?
noooope.
Quote:
~If Ms. Lage has the ability to traverse planes what prevents her from being classified as a Planeswalker?
No spark, which means she likely doesn't travel through the Blind Eternities.
Quote:
~If Ms. Lage can manifest as a 20/20 Indestructable Avatar, How powerful would she be in her actual physical form?
p/t translates poorly to the lore.
Quote:
Now after thinking of those questions for a bit, answer me this, could Merit Lage be the most powerful being in the multi-verse?
it depends upon what metric you choose. Obviously not, because she got frozen.

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Yet on the morn we wake to find / that mem'ry left so far behind.
To deafened ears we ask, unseen / "Which is life and which the dream?"


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 Post subject: Re: Marit Lage
PostPosted: Sat Oct 29, 2016 8:11 am 
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I mean, in fairness, if (and that's probably a very big 'if') the thing in Dark Depths is really just an extension of the 'real' Marit Lage, it could be a scenario like with the Eldrazi titans and she's just a metaphorical hand that got frozen in a metaphorical pond. If she has a 'real' form somehwere out there, it could be the most powerful creature in the multiverse, and maybe she doesn't even care about or notice that tiny 20/20 avatar of hers that's trapped on Dominaria. Another possibility is that, even if the avatar token is the 'real' Marit Lage after all, maybe she wanted to be frozen and is just chilling there, like Emrakul had herself sealed in the moon. Wrath of Marit Lage's flavour text seems to indicate she's sleeping, so maybe it's just some kind of hibernation and she can escape anytime she wants as soon as she wakes up. Not that I want her to be super absurdly powerful and start some sort of power creep where she could eat Emrakul for breakfast, I don't think there's anything to be gained from that. Nor am I in favour of making her a planeswalker (or an Eldrazi for that matter). Again, there's nothing to be gained from it, and you'd have the Mending comlicating things.

It's a shame they wasted all that Lovecraftian potential on the Eldrazi. Sure, I realise the Eldrazi ended up they way they did sort of by accident and they just made stuff up as they went along to fit their big, colourless creature-designs into Zendikar. But at least with the power of hindsight, establishing Marit Lage as Magic's Lovecraftian horror element rather than the Eldrazi would have been way more elegant. They even could have started that with Coldsnap. The story just felt like a rehash of the Ice Age related stuff that came before, with a bunch of mages we'd never heard of trying to freeze everything over again, a new zombie army, some more fighting around Tresserhorn etc. What if the 'lost' set of Ice Age block had been about Marit Lage's awakening instead? With all the glaciers melting after the Thaw, of course her prison (if it even is one) would start melting as well, and Dark Depths does a great job showing that. She could even have brought back the cold and paved the way for Snow mana just like the Rimewind mages did in the real set. Wrath of Marit Lage suggests that's a thing that actually happened, at least locally. It could have ended with Jaya Ballard coming back and helping to drive her off or lure her away so she would have left Dominaria. We could even postulate Marit Lage went into hibernation in the first place because she was trapped in the Shard! From there, the way would have been free to have her return as Magic's Lovecraftian entitiy, and we would have been spared the disappointing treatment of the Eldrazi arc (retcons, changes in direction, taking forever to be resolved, Eldrazi overkill in BFZ, OGW and EDM, the Sorin-Ugin-Nahiri reunion that had been built up for years never happening, possibly even Tarkir's timetravel disaster via the connection with Ugin etc.). All the elements would have been there: Marit Lage's unfathomable nature, her ability to travel the planes, inspiring cultists, giving people visions/bad dreams/madness, warping reality etc. It might have been best to not have her destroy planes the way the Eldrazi titans did, but to just be there at the fringes of the multiverse, messing with planes once in a while, being opposed by the occasional planeswalker etc. Just a more subtle Lovecraftian "Marit Lage is out there doing things and nobody can do **** about it" approach. The exciting thing about her could have been that we, the audience, gradually learn more about her nature and her agenda over the years as she appears in the occasional block, not the same handful of characters discovering the bigger picture and using that to defeat her. Maybe it could have been established that she's a creature from The Abyss, so we could have learned more about that place while we were at it. Or maybe she's just the most powerful creature from a plane of weird eldritch beings. Heck, they could have expanded her mythos and tied everything together by saying she is somehow related to Cosmic Larva and Cosmic Horror! I need a time machine and a job at Wizards... :/

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