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Pyroneer
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Author:  Rush_Clasic [ Sat Jul 27, 2024 7:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Pyroneer
Designing to a portmanteau.

Pyroneer
Creature - Human Wizard (R)
Spells and abilities you control with the text "any target" may target and damage any nonland permanent.
If a nonland permanent is marked with damage equal to or greater than its mana value, destroy it.
: Pyroneer deals 1 damage to any target.
"It doesn't burn yet."
0/2
Author:  Mown [ Sun Jul 28, 2024 6:27 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Pyroneer
Quote:
120.1a Damage can’t be dealt to an object that’s not a battle, a creature, or a planeswalker.
Author:  razorborne [ Sun Jul 28, 2024 8:31 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Pyroneer
Mown wrote:
Quote:
120.1a Damage can’t be dealt to an object that’s not a battle, a creature, or a planeswalker.

Quote:
101.1. Whenever a card’s text directly contradicts these rules, the card takes precedence. The card overrides only the rule that applies to that specific situation. The only exception is that a player can concede the game at any time (see rule 104.3a).


:duel:
Author:  Rush_Clasic [ Sun Jul 28, 2024 10:11 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Pyroneer
I've added two words to alleviate the stated concerns.
Author:  Mown [ Sun Jul 28, 2024 10:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Pyroneer
razorborne wrote:
Mown wrote:
Quote:
120.1a Damage can’t be dealt to an object that’s not a battle, a creature, or a planeswalker.

Quote:
101.1. Whenever a card’s text directly contradicts these rules, the card takes precedence. The card overrides only the rule that applies to that specific situation. The only exception is that a player can concede the game at any time (see rule 104.3a).


:duel:

The card only said you could target them, not deal damage to them.
Author:  Shazzeh [ Sun Jul 28, 2024 12:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pyroneer
Does this instantly kill all nonland permanents with mana value 0? Can something be said to be "marked with" zero damage?
Author:  Rush_Clasic [ Sun Jul 28, 2024 2:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pyroneer
Shazzeh wrote:
Does this instantly kill all nonland permanents with mana value 0? Can something be said to be "marked with" zero damage?

I imagine the CR would get an update to clarify. I'd interpret that 0 damage is not an amount marked when regarding this card. 0 mana value cards would require at least 1 damage to kill them.
Author:  razorborne [ Sun Jul 28, 2024 3:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pyroneer
Rush_Clasic wrote:
Shazzeh wrote:
Does this instantly kill all nonland permanents with mana value 0? Can something be said to be "marked with" zero damage?

I imagine the CR would get an update to clarify. I'd interpret that 0 damage is not an amount marked when regarding this card. 0 mana value cards would require at least 1 damage to kill them.

technically dying from 0 toughness is different from dying from lethal damage (hence why the former works on indestructible creatures) so I would assume this could be made to work:

Quote:
704.5f If a creature has toughness 0 or less, it’s put into its owner’s graveyard. Regeneration can’t replace this event.

704.5g If a creature has toughness greater than 0, it has damage marked on it, and the total damage marked on it is greater than or equal to its toughness, that creature has been dealt lethal damage and is destroyed. Regeneration can replace this event.


you could also make it require strictly more than its CMC in order to avoid the question entirely.

another question: is this supposed to effectively lower the toughness of, say, aegis turtle, or should it only affect non-creatures?

:duel:
Author:  Hello World [ Mon Jul 29, 2024 9:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Pyroneer
Can I use this to have the "destroy target artifact" mode of kolaghan's command target another kind of nonland permanent?
Author:  Rush_Clasic [ Tue Jul 30, 2024 11:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pyroneer
razorborne wrote:
another question: is this supposed to effectively lower the toughness of, say, aegis turtle, or should it only affect non-creatures?

I left the functionality intact because I couldn't think of a good reason not to.

Hello World wrote:
Can I use this to have the "destroy target artifact" mode of kolaghan's command target another kind of nonland permanent?

I suppose so, which is super confusing. I'm starting to think this card isn't gonna see print.
Author:  Tevish Szat [ Wed Jul 31, 2024 3:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Pyroneer
I love this card. It's a rules *nightmare*, but it's very cute and reasonably flavorful.

Here's how I'd reword it to get it to do the grokkable things.

Pyroneer
:1::r:
Creature - Human Wizard
"Any Target" includes any nonland permanent in addition to its normal definition for spells and abilities you control.
If a noncreature, nonland permanent has damage marked on it equal to or greater than its mana value, this is lethal damage (At least one damage must be marked)
:t:: Pyroneer deals 1 damage to any target.
0/2
Author:  razorborne [ Wed Jul 31, 2024 12:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pyroneer
Tevish Szat wrote:
I love this card. It's a rules *nightmare*, but it's very cute and reasonably flavorful.

Here's how I'd reword it to get it to do the grokkable things.

Pyroneer
:1::r:
Creature - Human Wizard
"Any Target" includes any nonland permanent in addition to its normal definition for spells and abilities you control.
If a noncreature, nonland permanent has damage marked on it equal to or greater than its mana value, this is lethal damage (At least one damage must be marked)
:t:: Pyroneer deals 1 damage to any target.
0/2

is there any reason not to do the Overload thing?

Pyroneer-
Creature-Human Wizard
Replace all instances of "any target" with "target non-land permanent" on spells you control.
All non-land permanents can be damaged. Artifacts and enchantments are destroyed if they've taken damage greater than or equal to their mana value. (Damage is removed at end of turn. They must have taken at least 1 damage.)
: Pyroneer deals 1 damage to any target.
0/2

went with artifact/enchantment because I found myself wondering how this interacts with Planeswalkers and Battles, which already have their own separate mechanisms for how to receive damage that doesn't involve marking it. (that is, a jace beleren that's taken 3 damage this turn won't actually die to this because the rules that govern the removal of loyalty counters replace the creature-based rules for the marking of damage, so that should be clear on the card.) that does also highlight that this is kinda primarily a tool for monored enchantment destruction, which is a big no-no. also how has no one remarked on it being a 2-mana super-prodigal pyromancer yet?

:duel:
Author:  Knight Otu [ Wed Jul 31, 2024 1:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pyroneer
I feel I'd go with "Nonland permanents without a toughness, loyalty, or defense are destroyed..." rather than "Artifacts and enchantments are destroyed..." to remove questions about artifact creatures and the like. Much, much longer, of course.
Author:  Rush_Clasic [ Thu Aug 01, 2024 2:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pyroneer
razorborne wrote:
also how has no one remarked on it being a 2-mana super-prodigal pyromancer yet?
I honestly thought we'd power-creeped past it by now, just at higher rarities, but looking through some card searches, we haven't had unconditional pinging for MV 2 since Razorfin Hunter. Sooooooo... make it cost .
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