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Graveyard order mattering? Was removing it a bad idea?
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Author:  Thrull Champion [ Fri Oct 04, 2013 1:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Graveyard order mattering? Was removing it a bad idea?
Honestly, I'm a fan of Graveyard order, and I feel it's removal has destroyed tons of design space and mechanic possibility. Does anyone else agree with me?
Author:  Yarium [ Fri Oct 04, 2013 1:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Graveyard order mattering? Was removing it a bad idea?
I think the only issue with graveyard-order-matters mechanics is that it requires extra "down time" in the game. It's about taking 5 seconds more on many actions to check and re-check that zone. Personally, so long as the use of the mechanic is kept to a minimum (rare or mythic, max of one per 3 sets), I think it'll work fine.

Also, I think a quick mechanic of “if this is the top card of your graveyard” would be a great mechanic too, because you can “check” it VERY quickly so that the extra down-time needed for it is even less than the down-time needed for mechanics like Flashback.
Author:  Filobel [ Fri Oct 04, 2013 1:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Graveyard order mattering? Was removing it a bad idea?
Thrull Champion wrote:
Honestly, I'm a fan of Graveyard order, and I feel it's removal has destroyed tons of design space and mechanic possibility. Does anyone else agree with me?

It did remove some design space, but it also makes gameplay much better. I think it the bit of design space loss is worth the huge gain in being allowed to order my graveyard in a relevant way.
Author:  Shadowchu [ Fri Oct 04, 2013 1:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Graveyard order mattering? Was removing it a bad idea?
Getting rid of graveyard ordering was good for the game. While I agree that some portions of the game have been "dumbed down", getting rid of tedious interactions is good. Knowing the order in which things go into the graveyard is not very important and shouldn't be something you need to know. If somebody uses a removal spell on your creature that is enchanted, you shouldn't be expected to know the timing or the stacking order in which that would occur.
Author:  Jman22 [ Fri Oct 04, 2013 1:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Graveyard order mattering? Was removing it a bad idea?
It only matters in Legacy. And the cards that rely on GY order are just a pain in the ass anyway. I hate it when casuals use them in EDH or whatnot. They also make it so its generally a bad idea to ever touch your graveyard.

I also like how Shadowchu managed to throw a jab at Bestow in his post. That mechanic is annoying.
Author:  The Butt [ Fri Oct 04, 2013 3:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Graveyard order mattering? Was removing it a bad idea?
Filobel wrote:
Thrull Champion wrote:
Honestly, I'm a fan of Graveyard order, and I feel it's removal has destroyed tons of design space and mechanic possibility. Does anyone else agree with me?

It did remove some design space, but it also makes gameplay much better. I think it the bit of design space loss is worth the huge gain in being allowed to order my graveyard in a relevant way.

no

i agree with op
Author:  Filobel [ Fri Oct 04, 2013 3:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Graveyard order mattering? Was removing it a bad idea?
Of course you do.
Author:  The Butt [ Fri Oct 04, 2013 3:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Graveyard order mattering? Was removing it a bad idea?
It may "remove work" from the game to removd graveyard order mattering, but it also removes interesting card interactions.

Magic players are literally the laziest, saddest mofos Ive encountered. its sad.
Author:  Yarium [ Fri Oct 04, 2013 3:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Graveyard order mattering? Was removing it a bad idea?
Actually, I think Shadowchu brought up a very good point - effects that aren't easily understood for how they go into a graveyard. Yeah it removes some card designs, but sales tests have confirmed that being able to make fast decisions is good for Wizard's bottom line. Say what you will about sales, but a good bottom line for Wizards is ultimately a good thing for the players too - it's an indication of the health of the game.
Author:  Mown [ Fri Oct 04, 2013 4:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Graveyard order mattering? Was removing it a bad idea?
The Butt wrote:
It may "remove work" from the game to removd graveyard order mattering, but it also removes interesting card interactions.

Magic players are literally the laziest, saddest mofos Ive encountered. its sad.

Complexity doesn't necessarily lead to depth.
Author:  Filobel [ Fri Oct 04, 2013 5:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Graveyard order mattering? Was removing it a bad idea?
The Butt wrote:
It may "remove work" from the game to removd graveyard order mattering, but it also removes interesting card interactions.

Magic players are literally the laziest, saddest mofos Ive encountered. its sad.

Yeah, literally the laziest.

Anyway, it has nothing to do with "work". It has all to do with removing unnecessary potential mistakes. "Oh, you accidentally changed the order of two cards while looking through your graveyard? JUDGE!"

I mean, we could also force people to keep the order of cards in their hand. It would add interesting interactions (target player discards the 2nd card in his hand), but it would just be tedious to maintain and enforce.

The "interesting card interactions" really aren't that interesting, so the gain would really be minimal.

Or as you would put it: "Your opinion is wrong, I only state facts and you are wrong for thinking differently"
Author:  Ko [ Fri Oct 04, 2013 5:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Graveyard order mattering? Was removing it a bad idea?
you are making bad posts in this thread

graveyard order offers basically nothing to the game so I don't care that it doesn't exist
Author:  The Butt [ Fri Oct 04, 2013 6:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Graveyard order mattering? Was removing it a bad idea?
Ko you are making bad posts in this board. Also dont use my real name here thanks

Graveyard order matters isnt a problem and adds depth to an extremely simplified Magic.
Author:  Ko [ Fri Oct 04, 2013 6:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Graveyard order mattering? Was removing it a bad idea?
make a compelling card that makes graveyard order a thing to put in the game

I dare you
Author:  The Butt [ Fri Oct 04, 2013 6:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Graveyard order mattering? Was removing it a bad idea?
Tombsplice
Enchantment
If the top card of your graveyard is a creature card, creatures you control gain all activated abilities on that creature card.

qed
Author:  Ko [ Fri Oct 04, 2013 6:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Graveyard order mattering? Was removing it a bad idea?
4/10 on the compell-o-meter sorry
Author:  The Butt [ Fri Oct 04, 2013 7:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Graveyard order mattering? Was removing it a bad idea?
Putrefied Sorceror
Creature - Zombie Wizard
Creature cards in your graveyard with exactly two noncreature cards above them have "Discard a card: Return this card from your graveyard to the battlefield tapped."
1/2
Author:  Ko [ Fri Oct 04, 2013 8:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Graveyard order mattering? Was removing it a bad idea?
why doesn't that just say "Creature cards in your graveyard have "Discard a card: Return this card from your graveyard to the battlefield tapped.""
Author:  The Butt [ Fri Oct 04, 2013 8:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Graveyard order mattering? Was removing it a bad idea?
Cause then it would be busted. At least the restriction limits its use somewhat while being more interesting than a simple mana cost. Plus its flavorful. Raising long buried creatures from the dead.
Author:  Ko [ Fri Oct 04, 2013 8:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Graveyard order mattering? Was removing it a bad idea?
I didn't really read your card so I thought it just put them into your hand

it's still not that balanced as-is

and just as lame
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