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So Magic is becoming Yugioh...
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Author:  tony3 [ Tue Sep 24, 2013 9:15 pm ]
Post subject:  So Magic is becoming Yugioh...

Okay not really, but the power creep is completely ridiculous.

As someone who hasn't really checked on any new cards in two years or so, I'm surprised how high the power creep has skyrocketed.

I realize they're trying to make decks more aggro based, but it seems every creature is super powered now adays.

Author:  LilyStorm [ Tue Sep 24, 2013 9:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: So Magic is becoming Yugioh...

It's only a matter of time until they print a 0 mana artifact that can be sacced for 3 mana!!!!!!11

Author:  Croatoan [ Tue Sep 24, 2013 9:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: So Magic is becoming Yugioh...

LilyStorm wrote:
It's only a matter of time until they print a 0 mana artifact that can be sacced for 3 mana!!!!!!11

What if they make a card that draws 3 cards for :u: at Instant speed? That would be so cool.

Author:  Thrull Champion [ Tue Sep 24, 2013 9:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: So Magic is becoming Yugioh...

What do you mean becoming? With the M14 legends rule, it is Yugioh...

Author:  miss_bun [ Tue Sep 24, 2013 9:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: So Magic is becoming Yugioh...

LilyStorm wrote:
It's only a matter of time until they print a 0 mana artifact that can be sacced for 3 mana!!!!!!11


Lol this wins hahaha, I love you.

I don't think it is so bad though. Power creep is happening with regard to creatures. Interesting spells are not becoming abusive. And I think that's a good thing.

Author:  supa_tim [ Tue Sep 24, 2013 10:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: So Magic is becoming Yugioh...

Actually, I don't think it is necessarily overall power creep. Certainly creatures are becoming more powerful, but non-creature spells aren't really overpowered. So, it might feel like power creep because back in the good ol' days creatures were bad and spells won the game and now creatures win the game and are only supported by spells.

But if you look at current Vintage decklists you'll find mostly the same stuff you found 5+ years ago. Sure, snapcaster mage has found his way in to some decklists, and tarmogoyf is around, and dark confidant, and stoneforge mystic. But according to mtgdecks.net only 4 creatures break the top 50 most played cards. The most powerful cards are still spells.

Even in legacy, creatures only take 9 slots out of 50 (again, according to mtgdecks.net). So, even with power creep in creatures, the eternal formats are still dominated by old land and old spells.

Of course, every set is going to have a couple powerful cards that obsolete older cards, but that has to happen to keep things fresh.

I'm not saying I necessarily like having my good creatures become mediocre every other block, but I feel like Magic is actually pretty balanced right now.

My biggest beef is having the gold-standard green creature cost over $100...

Author:  squinty_eyes [ Tue Sep 24, 2013 10:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: So Magic is becoming Yugioh...

See, I thought Magic was getting closer to Yu-Gi-Oh when they started making you need specific cards to work together. You know, like:

Angel's Herald ==> Empyrial Archangel

Arachnus Spinner ==> Arachnus Web

Behemoth's Herald ==> Godsire

Bogbrew Witch + Festering Newt + Bubbling Cauldron

Dark Supplicant ==> Scion of Darkness

Demon's Herald ==> Prince of Thralls

Dragon's Herald ==> Hellkite Overlord

Kyscu Drake + Spitting Drake ==> Viashivan Dragon

Nissa Revane ==> Nissa's Chosen

Sift Through Sands + Peer Through Depths + Reach Through Mists ==> The Unspeakable

Sphinx's Herald ==> Sphinx Sovereign

Urborg Panther + Feral Shadow + Breathstealer ==> Spirit of the Night

I dunno, I just really don't like cards absolutely requiring specific other cards to be of use. I know each of them could be used on their own, it just kinda irks me to see them print this kinda stuff. That was one of the biggest things that bothered me about Yu-Gi-Oh...

~SE++

Author:  Croatoan [ Tue Sep 24, 2013 10:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: So Magic is becoming Yugioh...

supa_tim wrote:
Actually, I don't think it is necessarily overall power creep. Certainly creatures are becoming more powerful, but non-creature spells aren't really overpowered. So, it might feel like power creep because back in the good ol' days creatures were bad and spells won the game and now creatures win the game and are only supported by spells.

But if you look at current Vintage decklists you'll find mostly the same stuff you found 5+ years ago. Sure, snapcaster mage has found his way in to some decklists, and tarmogoyf is around, and dark confidant, and stoneforge mystic. But according to mtgdecks.net only 4 creatures break the top 50 most played cards. The most powerful cards are still spells.

Even in legacy, creatures only take 9 slots out of 50 (again, according to mtgdecks.net). So, even with power creep in creatures, the eternal formats are still dominated by old land and old spells.

Of course, every set is going to have a couple powerful cards that obsolete older cards, but that has to happen to keep things fresh.

I'm not saying I necessarily like having my good creatures become mediocre every other block, but I feel like Magic is actually pretty balanced right now.

My biggest beef is having the gold-standard green creature cost over $100...

This is probably the most concise argument I've seen against the whole "Powercreep" comment, very well said.
I have to agree about the 'Goyf as well; WotC could have done something to try and fix it, but instead they chose not to. At least the price of Thoughtseize has been corrected with Theros. It's one of the reasons I love Stoneforge being banned in Modern - I can actually afford a playset :P.

Author:  Ko [ Tue Sep 24, 2013 10:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: So Magic is becoming Yugioh...

the games are so fundamentally different that if anyone actually believes that statement then they are not smart

Author:  miss_bun [ Tue Sep 24, 2013 10:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: So Magic is becoming Yugioh...

squinty_eyes wrote:
See, I thought Magic was getting closer to Yu-Gi-Oh when they started making you need specific cards to work together. You know, like:

Kyscu Drake + Spitting Drake ==> Viashivan Dragon

Urborg Panther + Feral Shadow + Breathstealer ==> Spirit of the Night

I dunno, I just really don't like cards absolutely requiring specific other cards to be of use. I know each of them could be used on their own, it just kinda irks me to see them print this kinda stuff. That was one of the biggest things that bothered me about Yu-Gi-Oh...

~SE++


These cards, and several others that weren't on your list, predate the YGO card game by several years.

Author:  squinty_eyes [ Tue Sep 24, 2013 10:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: So Magic is becoming Yugioh...

miss_bun wrote:
These cards, and several others that weren't on your list, predate the YGO card game by several years.

Oh, maybe. Based on Wikipedia, which is never reliable, Yu-Gi-Oh! began on September 30th, 1996. Mirage came out the next month. Not that Wizards would have had enough time to do anything like that, nor do I think they would feel the need to snag ideas. But yeah, Yu-Gi-Oh! has only been around 3 years less than Magic as far as I can see. The full game wasn't released until something like 2002, but the Manga whith the base ideas has been around since the mid-90's.

~SE++

Author:  supa_tim [ Tue Sep 24, 2013 11:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: So Magic is becoming Yugioh...

I don't think the mechanics of the game were really explicit in the cartoon. And from what I remember, the in-show game seemed to borrow heavily from Magic. I'd more likely fall on the side that YGO the card game came significantly after Magic, despite the show being around at a similar time.

Author:  The Butt [ Tue Sep 24, 2013 11:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: So Magic is becoming Yugioh...

Creatures are getting too big. RAAAGGGHHH SMASH FACE.

No thanks. I'm perfectly fine playing casual Magic with older cards. Where the game's not on a 6-7 turn clock. C:

Author:  Ko [ Tue Sep 24, 2013 11:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: So Magic is becoming Yugioh...

The Butt wrote:
No thanks. I'm perfectly fine playing casual Magic with older cards. Where the game's not on a 6-7 turn clock. C:

I was happy when games were 6-7 turns vs aggro. its more like 3-4 now

Author:  The Butt [ Tue Sep 24, 2013 11:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: So Magic is becoming Yugioh...

3-4 turn aggro kills?

Wut.

Author:  supa_tim [ Tue Sep 24, 2013 11:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: So Magic is becoming Yugioh...

Yeah...what?

Legacy aggro decks don't kill on turn 3, so I doubt Modern and Standard do.

I mean, Burn MIGHT be able to pull a turn three win (5 bolts, fireblast, and utilizing opponent's fetchland), but those wins are few and far between.

Author:  LilyStorm [ Tue Sep 24, 2013 11:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: So Magic is becoming Yugioh...

squinty_eyes wrote:
miss_bun wrote:
These cards, and several others that weren't on your list, predate the YGO card game by several years.

Oh, maybe. Based on Wikipedia, which is never reliable, Yu-Gi-Oh! began on September 30th, 1996. Mirage came out the next month. Not that Wizards would have had enough time to do anything like that, nor do I think they would feel the need to snag ideas. But yeah, Yu-Gi-Oh! has only been around 3 years less than Magic as far as I can see. The full game wasn't released until something like 2002, but the Manga whith the base ideas has been around since the mid-90's.

~SE++


Well the manga is old but the manga isn't about cards. There are chapters about duel monsters but its not lime the tcg at all. 2002 is when cards came out though.

Author:  Shadowchu [ Wed Sep 25, 2013 12:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: So Magic is becoming Yugioh...

supa_tim wrote:
Yeah...what?

Legacy aggro decks don't kill on turn 3, so I doubt Modern and Standard do.

I mean, Burn MIGHT be able to pull a turn three win (5 bolts, fireblast, and utilizing opponent's fetchland), but those wins are few and far between.

It is different in Legacy though. The aggro decks are slower because they need to disrupt what their opponent is doing or they will just lose. They need to play wastelands or Ports (goblins)/counter magic (fish) because combo decks will just roll them over. In standard aggro you can just curve out and the only thing that interacts with you is removal spells. In the past standard rotation, naya blitz could turn 3 and other aggro decks could turn 4 but they were very consistent between that 4-6 range which is very powerful.

I play legacy burn now and turn 3 kills are somewhat common against opponents who cannot interact with you.

Author:  The Butt [ Wed Sep 25, 2013 12:21 am ]
Post subject:  Re: So Magic is becoming Yugioh...

Still, Standard is a silly stupid format. Just gonna put that out there. B^)

Author:  Ko [ Wed Sep 25, 2013 12:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: So Magic is becoming Yugioh...

The Butt wrote:
Still, Standard is a silly stupid format. Just gonna put that out there. B^)

it wasn't always though

I really liked Kamigawa/Ravnica, Ravnica/Time Spiral and Time Spiral/Lorwyn/Shadowmoor

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