Winning a round gets you nothing. You have to win the season.

I don't think anything under the "not legal in vintage" tag is allowed to be unbanned.

yep! but vanilla is easier conceptually so doing a couple of those first gets people used to the idea. alts put us on a much more even footing, although vets still have somewhat of an advantage there as we know what structures of decks tend to work so we can more quickly hone in on things that are more likely to perform, although hey maybe that means we'll miss something outside the box. we'll see what happens when the alt rounds begin.

I'm all for changing to 4cm for vanilla rounds.

One day left to submit Vanilla Redux decks!

Also, I fixed some inconsistencies in the Vanilla scoresheet and put everybody's official scores in the OP! Go check it out!

I was originally going to just sum everybody's match points to determine score, but I've decided that I want each round to be weighted equally, so I'm taking your average match points for each round, and then summing the four rounds together to get your final score for the season.
If people are wondering what happened to last season's scoring system, I came up with that system to avoid having a scoreboard that just keeps accumulating into the hundreds and thousands. Now that the scores are reset every four weeks, though, I think we can afford a little more complexity in the scoring system.

I'm not sure what this has to do with which name is better.

generally, turn 2 win decks are illegal. it's more because we copied the alt ban list to regular, and banning basic turn 2 wins is good in alt formats, especially drawback ones, to force the format to behave more and let people find the cool new stuff. if you want to unban depths all you have to do is win the season.

1) It started out as 3 Card Blind on the WotC forums
2) Still not relevant to which name is better

Artifact Blast is disruption.

Edit: I'm just being nitpicky now because it's late and I've had a rough day. In general, though, Depths is a reasonable deck to play in an unknown meta.

the faster depths deck uses lotus. Urborg is more resilient but loses a turn.

anyway yeah I can probably come off the vanilla list, but a lot of alt formats get ruined by it.

Dark Dephts + Vampire Hexmage is the only combo Dark Depths goes with.

Let's look at the first 3cm round of this season. Let's see what the score actually would have been for that deck.

It would have gone 0-6 against Jim due to citadel siege.

I THINK it would have gone 3-3 against the perplexing chimera deck.

Would have gone 3-3 against the Daze deck.

Would have gone 0-6 against both singularity karakas decks.

Would have lost to both artifact blast decks 0-6.

Would have gotten its first 6-0 against the mayor of avabruck deck.

Woud have gotten 6-0 against triple memnite.

Would have 3-3'd me or 6-0'd me. I'm not sure which (assuming lotus version).

Would have 2-2'd the deck in which valkir really should have used a moxen.

Would have lost 0-6 to ensnaring bridge.

Would have lost to both tabernacle decks.

Would have beaten sand crab.

Would have tied lodestone golem deck.





It sounds like the deck would have gone below a 3 point average. Thus, I would not consider it to be THAT much of an issue in vanilla. Since there are TWO banlists, I don't see why it can't come off one and stay on the other if someone picks it. It's like black lotus or smallpox. You don't necessarily WANT to play against it, but that doesn't mean it's a severe issue.

Oh, I absolutely agree that it shouldn't be banned. But I will point out that both Thespian's Stage and a simple (and slow) Storage/Card/Depths are viable alternatives. There are other ways as well, mostly involving mana manipulation, but Hexmage is not the only card.

Storage land wouldn't be worth it.

yeah, I suspect if it got unbanned it would stay that way. we just started with a synchronized list for simplicity, and it does cause problems in alt formats, especially downside ones.

and yeah Jack is right, if you're going for an interminably slow storage land win, Emrakul is just better.

Apparently you haven't seen Dark Depths + Thespian's Stage + Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth, which is a full turn slower than Urborg/Hexmage, but those are both besides the point.


The Dark Depths token is indestructible, thus Tabernacle is actually bad at fighting it.



It's not a ban that I think is necessary. In that same vein, Show and Tell, Shelldock Isle, Phyrexian Revoker, Foil, and Flash probably aren't necessary, either. But I feel that time has shown them to be big enough hindrances to other decks coming into the format. Really, though, I feel like we've just exhausted 3CM thoroughly over the years. Which is why (broke record) I'm interested in Vanilla 4CM. Because although it's also been done, it hasn't been done to death.

go home, you're drunk.

Next you'll be saying glacial chasm is a deck you enjoy having in the meta.

I have nothing wrong with Chasm as a deck, although I don't know how to make it work in vanilla. energy field is generally better.

@Razorborne,

Glacial Chasm
Mishra's Workshop
Jinxed Choker

A semi-infamous deck that a lot of people ban glacial chasm for.

Some people consider it to be really really broken. I am one of them. It's a much faster version of the ensnaring bridge deck that you can lay down on your first turn. In fact, if I'm not mistaken, it might have been able to win the first round.

I was just about to mention Choker.dec. Or the glacially slow Gibbering Descent/Bottomless Vault


I'm serious. They're all decks that are good but not necessarily unreasonable in vanilla.

I count it as having 60 total points. That's with an extra match, so figure 57, which was good enough for 2nd.

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