I think some of my opponents may be missing the fact that I don't get revolt the turn I play Solemn Recruit. My goldfish matchup takes me 6 turns to win.

1: Play Remote Farm.
2: Play Undiscovered Paradise and Solemn Recruit.
3: Undiscovered Paradise returns to my hand during my untap step. Play and tap Paradise. Swing for 4. Get a +1/+1 counter at end of turn.
4: Repeat Paradise loop. Swing for 6, get a counter.
5: Paradise. Swing for 8, get a counter.
6: Paradise. Swing for 10, win.

So I can't beat turn-5 Elspeth Tirel, and I don't think I 6-0 Edacade's deck.

You'd have had it a turn sooner if you'd played Ruins of Trokair, Ancient Spring, or Tinder Farm in place of Remote Farm. Tsk.

I forgot Ruins of Trokair was a thing, but yeah, I really should've remembered the Ancient Spring cycle. I was thinking about that exact cycle when trying to make the mana work for a different deck, but it completely slipped my mind by the time I settled on Solemn Recruit.

I mean, I did the calculations right after I woke up this morning, so I could have gotten something wrong. But I'm pretty sure every path I explored had you getting the turn around on me when you got down to 5 life. The closest I got to winning was with me on the play, where I got you down to 2 life before I had to block with my Simulacrum (after which I can't crew my Vehicle, and I can get you down to 1).



But this is where I remember that "play to win" does not mean "play only trying to win."

...I still think you win, because we tie if you swing into my Simulacrum in either game, and I win if you swing into an untapped Garrison when your Recruit is a 3/3 (or block as a 2/2). So...Assuming no swings or blocks until your guy is a 4/4:



So even though my initial calculations weren't the correct way to go about it, still looks like a 6-0 in your favor.

apparently i did not account for the "attack elspeth" line, that should do the trick to force the draw

Can someone please do the math for me vs 2?

Lazy much?

No. I don't have the spare time right now.

If you want to wait I'll do it on Sunday.

If you had time to do the math on you vs Golgari, you need only a tenth of that time to do you vs door.

No, scratch that. If you have time to type a response, you have time to do you vs door. Because that's literally all the time it takes to do that math.

New Round: Vanilla Lands
You can play any basic land card from outside the game any time you could normally play a land. (Vanilla banned list, plus some extras.)
Always banned in Vanilla Lands: Beacon of Creation, Black Lotus, Fastbond, Meddling Mage, Red Sun's Zenith, White Sun's Zenith
Begins Friday, January 20th
Ends Wednesday, January 25th

vs. me i think it is as simple as he can't kill me before i make tokens, and even though he gains a lot of life with me chumping for a while it doesn't matter when i can make enough tokens to eventually trade with wurmcoil engine with elspeth alive (naturally)

(or he just put the inverse of my result)

quick math tells me that mark777 goes 6-0 vs. door, as thallid is way too slow at generating tokens to compete with two 3/3s even with pendelhaven

You're not supposed to give him the answer. They don't learn if you just give them the answer.

laziness is not defeated that easily

It's like edacade doesn't want me to participate at all. <- I'm going to unban the cards that make it the least fun for you the next time I get a prize. Some combination of Channex, tabernacle, and/or strip mine.

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I should go 2-2 against Door actually. I think. I did the math in the car this morning. If y'all weren't busy talking smack with your head up your *** you would have done the math to figure that out.

No, Door doesn't get anything out of you. Even on the play the best Door can do is:

1. Pendelhaven Thallid
1. Workshop
2. Thallid(1), swing + Pendelhaven (20-18)
2. Workshop Wurmcoil
3. Thallid(2), swinging would be dum so don't
3. Wurmcoil gets Nature's Claim'd before it could deal combat damage. (20-22) Little wurmies pop out.
4. Thallid(3) becomes Thallid(0) and create Saproling1.

From here, Wurmies just swing. To kill one, door would need to gangblock+pendelhaven, and at least Thallid would die, which would assure inevitable loss (a surviving wurmie definitely outraces a single saproling, even pendelhaven-assisted).

To be able to put up a fight door would need to block with 2 Saprolings (so that it could kill one of the Wurmlings and not lose the thallid). But he won't have a second saproling til turn 7. Which is way too late with 6 damage swinging in every turn.

4. Wurmies attack (14)
5. Wurmies attack (8)
6. Wurmies attack (2)
7. Saproling2 is finally created. But it's too late. Now he has to block both wurmies or die immediately, which means he's losing 2 creatures (including the Thallid) and you're only losing 1. Then it's a 3/3 with a headstart against what could at best be a 2/3.

Amazing. Mark actually played the Wurmcoil. And once again, tokens are shown to be too powerful for 3CM (unless they are Saprolings, of course).

I think I'll actually play some counterspells for the lands round. Makes for a nice change. Just need to find a way to deal with protection-from-everything uncounterable elephant in the room.

at this rate, i might get all the elspeths banned

I'm sorry. I was thinking my deck was a turn slower than it actually was.

@Zietnoba

I would have instantly lost to any artifact blast or exile effect. I would also have lost instantly to LD. I expected Path to Exile and Crack the Earth to be stronger than they were.

Edit:

Hopefully my lands deck is easier to calculate. I've done something sort of stupid that is only possible in the land's round, and I hope it's good but I've got zero confidence that it's good.

Real counterspells come online too late to be relevant. The only counterspells that really work in 3cm ordinarily are taxing ones like Daze and Force Spike that can neuter an entire deck, but land rule round is terrible for those - players can wait a turn to get ready to pay a counter tax.

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