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PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2016 3:23 pm 
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I think there are two different kinds of complaints about the reserved list.

The one put forth by that article is that there are a bunch of cards that have no reason to even be on the list and that whose value wouldn't be jeopardized by being removed from the list. If you allow any changes to the list at all (something that, despite happening once, no longer seems to be an option), trimming those worthless cards should be pretty uncontroversial. Allowing the repritning of those would make new sets that little bit better.

However, that wouldn't do anything to fix the other complaint: that there are staple cards in eternal formats that are too rare and expensive because of the reserved list. That's not a case of the wrong cards being on the list; it's a case of the list working exactly as it was suposed to, and that effect just being bad for the players who need those cards. There's an inherent conflict between some people wanting the cards to be cheap and other people wanting the cards to be valuable.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2016 3:14 am 
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Step 1: Make a new, non standard legal set with differently named, but functional reprints of alpha duals.
Step 2: Ban alpha duals in legacy.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2016 5:39 am 
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The reserved list includes functional reprints. So doing that would violate both the letter and the spirit of the promise.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2016 10:14 am 
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The 40-50 "cheap" cards on the reserved list is totally irrelvent. That's just not a big enough design space to impact the game.

The reason why the reserved list is annoying is that it makes legacy (and vintage) too expensive. But I think WOTC likes it that way (even though they don't make money). Because then people just play Standard (or modern, which they also don't like)

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2016 10:28 am 
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adeyke wrote:
The reserved list includes functional reprints. So doing that would violate both the letter and the spirit of the promise.

You could add trinket text, though.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2016 12:36 pm 
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Zenbitz wrote:
The reason why the reserved list is annoying is that it makes legacy (and vintage) too expensive. But I think WOTC likes it that way (even though they don't make money).

This. Agree with this. The Reserved List was designed to ensure value on the secondary market. MTG is committed to robust value on the secondary market, so they don't end up like Beanie Babies.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2016 7:22 pm 
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Magic cards aren't beanie babies though. Beanie babies are valuable purely because people think they're valuable. Magic cards are valuable because you can play magic with them.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2016 7:59 pm 
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And yet foils and first-printings and full-arts/textless and other not-gameplay-impacting variations can have a massive effect on card value. A Beta Stasis fetches a 3 digit sum because people think it's valuable even though for the simple purpose of playing a card with that name and effect in your deck you could get a Revised or 4E one for under one fiftieth the cost.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2016 10:18 pm 
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adeyke wrote:
The reserved list includes functional reprints. So doing that would violate both the letter and the spirit of the promise.

You could add trinket text, though.


That would then follow the letter but still not the spirit (and they've said that they do value both; they're not looking for loopholes).

And it would still hurt and anger those people who own the original duals and want them to keep their value. There's just no way around that. Anything that reduces Legacy's reliance on those cards or gives more people to access to them will also have the effect of reducing the value of those originals. There's just no way to satisfy the needs of both groups of people (unless they do something absurd like promising to forever buy back any of those cards for the historically highest market value).


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2016 7:01 pm 
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Cato wrote:
Magic cards are valuable because you can play magic with them.

Or more precisely: Magic cards are valuable because there is a demand for them and there is demand for them because Magic: The Gathering is fun to play. People only flocked to Beanie Babies like crazy when stories emerged of how collectors would buy them at insane prices.

Point being, should people stop playing those formats then prices will drop. And if that happens then people who previously abstained from playing them might be interested again. In other words, shouldn’t this work itself out?


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2016 9:55 pm 
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It won't

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2016 10:46 pm 
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Hasn't (nonproxy) vintage and legacy participation gone down and down with each passing year, while the values of the cards just keeps on going up and up?

It seems to have passed into a time where value is driven primarily by scarcity and hoarding, and that drives the market far more than actual utility.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2016 8:42 pm 
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Most cards have little collectibility, but for some, collecability alone is sufficient to drive pricing.

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