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PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2013 12:39 pm 
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Zenbitz wrote:
Well... I am not business expert but it's a tradeoff.

Crappy MODO ALREADY grosses them $X/month (maybe $100,000?), and costs some amount below that to maintain. Let's say 2-3 FTE which is about $500K/year. The hardware is probably 1/10th that, so forget it.
Replacing it with new software is going to cost at least several million over 2-3 years - maybe as much as $50M total (online videogames are expensive to develop) , and it has to be paid upfront. And you still have the same maintenance costs. So, in order for this to be a good investment for WOTC/Hasbro they have to be sure to recoup their investment by increasing the number of subscribers/players that pay.

You have to also consider the backlash if they "upgrade" and it bombs. (i.e, forums, obamacare).

Free versions or competitors probably cannot compete for serious MTGO players because their won't be the gambling/payoff aspect of it. And MTG is still the biggest and best CCG game around, and the online game synergies with the paper one.

On the postitive side, eventually technology will badly outstrip their software and they will have to replace it. They probably are already working on a new version, but maybe it's only a couple engineers with prototypes.

I think $100,000 per month is a gross understatement.

The modo PTQ alone had over 700 people which is over $28,000 for a singular event. In addition to high profile events like this, drafts consistently fire at all times.

I think I read somewhere that MTGO does not reach the sales of paper equivalent but it is significant enough to where if MTGO just ceased to be, WotC would be losing out on a lot of money. They have enough money to be able to make it better, they just haven't, because people have seen it as "good enough" to get by. I think this was the straw that broke the camel's back and that something is going to be done now.

The upgrade leading to more problems argument is a bit near sighted if you ask me. Doing nothing to a system that is broken will not fix the system.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2013 12:52 pm 
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Throwing this out there, but a draft que seems to fire off once every 3 minutes on average. That's 3 packs per person * 8 players * $4.00/pack = $96 per draft. Let's pretend it's a draft pod firing off once every 5 minutes for ease of calculation. That's 12 drafts per hour, and 288 drafts over the course of a day. This works out to a gross of $27,648.00 per day, or $7,077,888 per year.

This is just drafts, not including regular events, sealed pools, phantoms, or basic purchases for collection purposes alone.

I would not be surprised if Magic Online breaks about $15,000,000 gross income annually, and works on a profit of about 40 or 50% - so 7.5 mil goes right into Wizard's pockets.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2013 12:54 pm 
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I learned that life is a short fleeting mess, and everything you could ever accomplish will end up as trash, and I'm lost inside.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2013 2:08 pm 
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Shadowchu wrote:
rstnme wrote:
That only happens in the event of a catastrophic disaster. And yeah, usually the reschedule and start from where it was stopped.

Except in baseball where if a game gets rained out after the 5th inning whoever is winning wins the game by the umpire's discretion.


This is probably how wotc should have handled the mtgo game. They are causing a lot of distrust with their playerbase.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2013 2:14 pm 
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I learned that life is a short fleeting mess, and everything you could ever accomplish will end up as trash, and I'm lost inside.

Welcome to adulthood.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2013 2:26 pm 
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Cato wrote:
I learned that life is a short fleeting mess, and everything you could ever accomplish will end up as trash, and I'm lost inside.

Welcome to adulthood.


Commentary like this makes me wonder why people bother living at all.

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I never take anytihng Lily says seriously, except for when I take it personally. Then it's personal.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2013 2:27 pm 
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life as le adult is so le miserable xD


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2013 2:46 pm 
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LilyStorm wrote:
Cato wrote:
I learned that life is a short fleeting mess, and everything you could ever accomplish will end up as trash, and I'm lost inside.

Welcome to adulthood.


Commentary like this makes me wonder why people bother living at all.

Good question. Honestly, I think the only reason I'm still living is because I'm addicted to it.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2013 4:16 pm 
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I just learned a Theros flavor thing: the removal is so expensive or requires a large power to target because you don't want to kill heroic guys and monsters until they've gotten big enough. It also reduces 2-for-1s seeing that it's an enchantment block.

That was a big "duh!" moment.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 8:05 am 
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I just learned that despite being one of the best cards ever printed, Lotus Cobra is almost impossible to convince people to run, especially as a four of. It's like black lotus on legs! :(


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 8:25 am 
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Lotus cobra a slightly better megrim

Neat effect and does enough to make you wanna try
But 95% of the time it's not that good


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 9:44 am 
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tony3 wrote:
Lotus cobra a slightly better megrim

Neat effect and does enough to make you wanna try
But 95% of the time it's not that good

Megrim is a 3 mana enchantment that requires you to build around it.
Lotus cobra is a 2 power 2 drops that requires you to run fetches.

How is this even a thing?

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 11:05 am 
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Cato wrote:
tony3 wrote:
Lotus cobra a slightly better megrim

Neat effect and does enough to make you wanna try
But 95% of the time it's not that good

Megrim is a 3 mana enchantment that requires you to build around it.
Lotus cobra is a 2 power 2 drops that requires you to run fetches.

How is this even a thing?



It is obviously not nearly as bad as megrim nor functionally like megrim. If that's what you thought I was saying you completely missed the point.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 11:10 am 
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Can you do me a favour and re-explain the point? I think I missed it too.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 12:23 pm 
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Zenbitz wrote:
Well... I am not business expert but it's a tradeoff.

Crappy MODO ALREADY grosses them $X/month (maybe $100,000?), and costs some amount below that to maintain. Let's say 2-3 FTE which is about $500K/year. The hardware is probably 1/10th that, so forget it.
Replacing it with new software is going to cost at least several million over 2-3 years - maybe as much as $50M total (online videogames are expensive to develop) , and it has to be paid upfront. And you still have the same maintenance costs. So, in order for this to be a good investment for WOTC/Hasbro they have to be sure to recoup their investment by increasing the number of subscribers/players that pay.

You have to also consider the backlash if they "upgrade" and it bombs. (i.e, forums, obamacare).

Free versions or competitors probably cannot compete for serious MTGO players because their won't be the gambling/payoff aspect of it. And MTG is still the biggest and best CCG game around, and the online game synergies with the paper one.

On the postitive side, eventually technology will badly outstrip their software and they will have to replace it. They probably are already working on a new version, but maybe it's only a couple engineers with prototypes.


Yet they have been working on a Beta for years which has probably cost them as much as if they had done it right?

There problem is that they look for people who are passionate about the game so they can pay them less in their tech group. Rather than look for people who are good at the job. I'm sure they have people good at their job, but I get the feeling their idea of the tech side is very backwards. They do their hiring by finding popular podcasts.

How long and how much money did the Beta cost vs some of these new ground up games? Hearthstone looks so much more amazing. If you made magic look like Hearthstone you would have something amazing, while if you made Hearthstone look like v3 or the Beta it would of never made it to its Beta.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 1:12 pm 
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If they are grossing $1M/month (and those numbers seem reasonable) they would be nuts to to mess with the system until they absolutely have to. How are they going to gross $2M/month????

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 1:16 pm 
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Zenbitz wrote:
Well... I am not business expert but it's a tradeoff.

Crappy MODO ALREADY grosses them $X/month (maybe $100,000?), and costs some amount below that to maintain. Let's say 2-3 FTE which is about $500K/year. The hardware is probably 1/10th that, so forget it.
Replacing it with new software is going to cost at least several million over 2-3 years - maybe as much as $50M total (online videogames are expensive to develop) , and it has to be paid upfront. And you still have the same maintenance costs. So, in order for this to be a good investment for WOTC/Hasbro they have to be sure to recoup their investment by increasing the number of subscribers/players that pay.

You have to also consider the backlash if they "upgrade" and it bombs. (i.e, forums, obamacare).

Free versions or competitors probably cannot compete for serious MTGO players because their won't be the gambling/payoff aspect of it. And MTG is still the biggest and best CCG game around, and the online game synergies with the paper one.

On the postitive side, eventually technology will badly outstrip their software and they have to replace it. They probably are already working on a new version, but maybe it's only a couple engineers with prototypes.


Yet they have been working on a Beta for years which has probably cost them as much as if they had done it right?

There problem is that they look for people who are passionate about the game so they can pay them less in their tech group. Rather than look for people who are good at the job. I'm sure they have people good at their job, but I get the feeling their idea of the tech side is very backwards. They do their hiring by finding popular podcasts.

How long and how much money did the Beta cost vs some of these new ground up games? Hearthstone looks so much more amazing. If you made magic look like Hearthstone you would have something amazing, while if you made Hearthstone look like v3 or the Beta it would of never made it to its Beta.


The problem is magic is not designed for computers. There's level of interaction and calculation that is far easier for human brains. Hearthstone is made by a video game company, and a very good one at that, for pc, and doesnt have any interaction in the sense of responding to things. Magic has a rule book as fat as a dictionary. Turning that into code is not a simple task. Obviously wotc doesn't care as much about mtgo as they do paper magic, but mtgo is a huge headache so I don't see that changing any time soon.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 1:31 pm 
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miss_bun wrote:
I just learned that despite being one of the best cards ever printed, Lotus Cobra is almost impossible to convince people to run, especially as a four of. It's like black lotus on legs! :(

I'll get 4 on mtgo and we can work on a real lotus cobra deck, but not some crazy beck//call draw your deck with no wincons thing. :P

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 3:30 pm 
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LilyStorm wrote:
The problem is magic is not designed for computers. There's level of interaction and calculation that is far easier for human brains. Hearthstone is made by a video game company, and a very good one at that, for pc, and doesnt have any interaction in the sense of responding to things. Magic has a rule book as fat as a dictionary. Turning that into code is not a simple task. Obviously wotc doesn't care as much about mtgo as they do paper magic, but mtgo is a huge headache so I don't see that changing any time soon.


You can still have something that looks graphically as good as Hearthstone. Also all the little cool animations and voices. Which is what I was saying. You are talking more about interactions which should be independent of the graphics. Especially considering when I have watched some of the twitch tv people fire up the game and mention how x card in Hearthstone is the same as y card in magic.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 3:36 pm 
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I think WotC wants to make MTGO look good though. The Beta was intended to look aesthetically pleasing and I think that was because so when people stream it, they want it to look good. Hearthstone looks good out of the box so to speak and if you put that on a screen people will watch it. MTGO looks dated and bad so why would anybody who doesn't care about Magic play it? I watch plenty of streams for games I don't care about because it looks nice which draws me into something that is actually very interesting. Thousands of people are watching Magic streams and promoting WotC for free (well some make money through twitch and such but it's not much).

Also, they need a good looking client so when they promote it, people want to show up and play it. It's hard for them to advertise the current client or the beta because they suck. WotC hides all the information about MTGO because they're embarrassed about it. It's a complete joke.

Core customers play it but they need to expand to a more casual user base for it to really thrive. I hope that it improves so that will be the case.

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