no, you're right:



you pay the cost before you turn it up.

Assault Formation could have some potential. There were some others, but I don't have time to look them up before work. I don't think there will ever be a format in which that new red Mythic and Braid of Fire work out but maybe?

I can't imagine Assault Formation doing anything.

Lotus-Figure of Destiny-Braid of fire

Oh wait no that is terrible.

many things are terrible

Yeah, I haven't found a Braid deck that isn't just better with storage lands.

As for formation...
Nyx-Fleece Ram
Savannah
Assault Formation

is kinda meh, but maybe you can just ignore Ass Forms second ability and concentrate on the first. Is there a high toughness 2 CMC non-defender creature with a relevant ability that's been overlooked before?

Isn't there a dasher too?

savannah only makes 1 mana.

Is Ram or Ass Form 2 CMC? Links don't work on my work computer anymore. I thought Form was and Ram was

they both cost 2.

Ouch, that changes things then. Probably doesn't have potential. Feels like it's sitting right next to Thrummer in my "needs a 4th card" pile.

I don't wanna clog up the main board, but this post intrigues me.

What decks aren't viable because Lotus is around? There's a few that get stronger, but those aren't really off the board right now anyways. Elephant Discard still wins on the play vs. Double Lotus and 4/1's Lotus Wasteland Mayor (there are even some versions it can 3-3 or better against). I ask cause I really can't think of any. Other than that I fully agree with your post.

And, to me, I think all banning Lotus does is make a turn 1 play into a turn 3/4 play (and I think LED is an easy Lotus substitute that gets those same threats out on turn 1). The threats from Double lotus still come down in time to win against pretty much all the same decks it's just far more vulnerable to Discard.

lol, how you feel about the new Frost Titan Rush?

Threats with ETB removal tend to lead to 2-2 waiting games. If the opponent never plays their threat, you can't win without playing out Icefall Regent onto an empty board. And then the removal aspect is wasted.

way worse in 3cm, it doesn't work if you play it first.

Most charge land decks aren't viable because of Lotus. The only ones that tend to have a shot run Maze of Ith or The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale, and it's a shot in the dark as to which is best on any given week. This is because Lotus speeds up the aggro decks in the format. Without it, you'd still have Mayor of Avabruck and double Chronomaton and such aggro decks, but those tend to be less dominating. Without Lotus, the number of fast things that can happen goes way down. Charge land decks don't have to worry about first turn Ajani Vengeant, first turn Titans, and so on. Lotus goes hand in hand with Wasteland, though. If you ban one, you should really ban the other.

That said, I think both formats are fine. Lotus is more dynamic.

I think we should try that progressive tournament again, where nothing is banned to begin with, then cards get banned every week if they were in the top X decks. That was interesting.

@New Frost Titan: I'll need to re-read it. I thought it was Etb and on attack, unless its the second ability and I just ran over here laughing since we just banned Titan.

@Rush: I always saw Charge lannds as not viable because of wasteland. Lotus keeps their speed in check, sure, but you already identified some ways around that, and there are other options, like Energy Field and to a lesser degree things like Meekstone have mild potential for success depending on the meta...or some hilarious deck I cant think of off the top of my head.

Valkir, you've said it yourself. Most decks you come up wtih are just 1 or 2 turns away from viability.

I guess my real argument comes down to the way things are banned. If you want Lotus banned, then why keep LED available and good lord does Wasteland explode in power level. At the same time, with the new seasonal format...you only have to go 2 rounds dealing with a warped meta, and that's pretty fun. In general I'm not entirely certain anything NEEDS banned. Even something so powerful it made the opponent discard their whole hand can be stopped with 2 X Loxodon Smiter type card, Storage Land or 2 X Storage Land, Smiter if you think Wasteland is in the deck and don't want to tie.

That's what I really enjoy about this game, it's not a simple Rock-Paper-Scissors between decks. Each card you play is a round of Rock-Paper-Scissors.

I thought I played a "Scissors" deck this round with Legion, that Mayor was the "Rock" deck, and Channex was "Paper". That line of thinking is entirely wrong.

Legion was Rock, Needle was Scissors.
Channex was Paper, Wasteland was Rock, Threat was Scissors.
Mayor was Rock, Wasteland was Rock
Mayor was Rock, Gut Shot was Scissors

When I played Scissors, Rock came down for the win.

I think I'll use that line of thinking in future meta analysis.

I'm confused. How did I do so well with all those rocks if I'm scissors?

I mean, it's not a PERFECT analogy. Gut shot's primary purpose was to cut Channex. It just also happened to soften or beat some of the Rocks out there.