No Goblins Allowed :: The Matrix

Seth Lloyd, a quantum-mechanical engineer at MIT, estimated the number of “computer operations” our universe has performed since the Big Bang — basically, every event that has ever happened. To repeat them, and generate a perfect facsimile of reality down to the last atom, would take more energy than the universe has.

"The computer would have to be bigger than the universe, and time would tick more slowly in the program than in reality,” says Lloyd. “So why even bother building it?”

There is a theory which states that if ever anyone discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable.

There is another theory which states that this has already happened.

What makes you think that they would consider it a failure? Maybe that would be their idea of success.

MORPHEUS: For the longest time, I wouldn't believe it. But then I saw the fields with my own eyes, watched them liquefy the dead so they could be fed intravenously to the living -

NEO (politely): Excuse me, please.

MORPHEUS: Yes, Neo?

NEO: I've kept quiet for as long as I could, but I feel a certain need to speak up at this point. The human body is the most inefficient source of energy you could possibly imagine. The efficiency of a power plant at converting thermal energy into electricity decreases as you run the turbines at lower temperatures. If you had any sort of food humans could eat, it would be more efficient to burn it in a furnace than feed it to humans. And now you're telling me that their food is the bodies of the dead, fed to the living? Haven't you ever heard of the laws of thermodynamics?

MORPHEUS: Where did you hear about the laws of thermodynamics, Neo?

NEO: Anyone who's made it past one science class in high school ought to know about the laws of thermodynamics!

MORPHEUS: Where did you go to high school, Neo?

(Pause.)

NEO: ...in the Matrix.

MORPHEUS: The machines tell elegant lies.

(Pause.)

NEO (in a small voice): Could I please have a real physics textbook?

MORPHEUS: There is no such thing, Neo. The universe doesn't run on math.

Of course, all this assumes that the simulation has glitches to find. To quote some relevant fanfiction:

Quote:

from here: http://hpmor.com/chapter/64

Author:	MagicPablo666 [ Sun Nov 24, 2013 2:42 am ]
Post subject:	The Matrix
So, I guess this is a little old, but I keep posting this sort of stuff for the F&S crowd and I don't think that they really enjoy it too much. So I thought I might try my luck here - I am inebriated if that explains my lack of reason thinking such things. Anyway, I find the argument regarding the likelihood of our universe being a simulation fairly convincing, however I am still fairly uneducated. http://discovermagazine.com/2013/dec/09-do-we-live-in-the-matrix#.UpE68eKG5zQ Anyway, check it out. I think it's neat. Y'all might think otherwise. I guess the question to consider is what the results would actually mean. My precious latino co-worker said that he would go do a bunch of "stupid ****" because now he knows he can't die. He's a sweet, sweet bastard. I will note that this part: "Unfortunately, our almighty simulators may instead have programmed us into a universe-size reality show — and are capable of manipulating the rules of the game, purely for their entertainment. In that case, maybe our best strategy is to lead lives that amuse our audience, in the hope that our simulator-gods will resurrect us in the afterlife of next-generation simulations. " is ridiculous. Like, c'mon. Pretty much reduces the credibility of the entire article. But anyway, thoughts on this?

Author:	MagicPablo666 [ Sun Nov 24, 2013 3:12 am ]
Post subject:	Re: The Matrix
True, but there are actual physicists or astronomers doing research on the subject right? I mean, the article doesn't exactly make it clear. The part I find intriguing is that such theories may actually be testable - and, y'know, people usually reference Matrix-esque hypotheses as untestable.

Author:	Cato [ Sun Nov 24, 2013 4:49 am ]
Post subject:	Re: The Matrix
If we were in the Matrix, why would the creators of the matrix allow us to make a multi-million dollar blockbuster detailing their plans?

Author:	Fenix [ Sun Nov 24, 2013 6:06 am ]
Post subject:	Re: The Matrix
Interesting read. Be careful though, pablo. This reminded me of the time I was heavily invested in reading about weird theories, and for some reason I was fixated with the idea of the Hollow Earth theory being legit. I mean look at this It's so absurd it's almost preposterous. I find that the more I stare at it, the less sense it makes yet it becomes more believable! what

Author:	LilyStorm [ Sun Nov 24, 2013 11:47 am ]
Post subject:	Re: The Matrix
Doesn't matter either way. We are here and you're not getting out because you don't exist outside.

No Goblins Allowed http://862838.jrbdt8wd.asia/

The Matrix http://862838.jrbdt8wd.asia/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=1326	Page 1 of 2

Author:	Matt Holck [ Sun Nov 24, 2013 11:54 am ]
Post subject:	Re: The Matrix
all ever texted is stored in Utah

Author:	MagicPablo666 [ Sun Nov 24, 2013 7:25 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: The Matrix
Matt! Really? Is that really you, sweet Mattrick? Cato: Well, the premise that we're being used for an energy source was always rather silly. I suspect that if we are existing inside a program then there isn't an actual organic counterpart anywhere else. The reasons for simulating a universe are not very extensive, but most of them would fall under the category of science. Besides, there is no better way to make a concept seem silly than to slap Keanu's dumb mug on it. Fenix.: Worry not. I'm a fairly skeptical human. Even if the results that they're looking at affirm their suspicions, it still seems to me as though that would be insufficient evidence. . . Also, that's the concave hollow earth, right? That's just nuts. I don't even. What? Lily: True I guess. But I'd be curious to find out. As a program, immortality might be possible, and as that is one of the things I hope to accomplish before I die - well, it could be very exciting!

Author:	thedevilwuster [ Sun Nov 24, 2013 8:13 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: The Matrix
If given the choice upon reincarnation I will chose to exist in a Dyson Shell. I'm in the St. Louis area and crave a stable weather pattern. Much more efficient than Orbs.

Author:	TPmanW [ Mon Nov 25, 2013 1:07 am ]
Post subject:	Re: The Matrix
I think I remember reading that article. The theory's sound enough in that untestable philosophical way. I'm not sure just what the odds would be actually, but there's a fair chance this is a simulation of some sort.

Author:	Cato [ Mon Nov 25, 2013 1:42 am ]
Post subject:	Re: The Matrix
It's possible, but that doesn't mean much. You know what they say, ANYTHING's possible.

Author:	TPmanW [ Mon Nov 25, 2013 1:00 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: The Matrix
Yes, but the point is that it's much more than just possible. It is not just possible, but plausible, even probable that we are living in a simulation.

Author:	Filobel [ Mon Nov 25, 2013 1:29 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: The Matrix
Here's a problem with the article: Quote: Seth Lloyd, a quantum-mechanical engineer at MIT, estimated the number of “computer operations” our universe has performed since the Big Bang — basically, every event that has ever happened. To repeat them, and generate a perfect facsimile of reality down to the last atom, would take more energy than the universe has. "The computer would have to be bigger than the universe, and time would tick more slowly in the program than in reality,” says Lloyd. “So why even bother building it?” Because whoever built it isn't actually part of this universe, by definition? I mean, I don't know the context in which Seth Lloyd said that. Most likely, he was talking about us simulating our own universe, not someone else simulating us. However, the rest of the article is based on this premise, assuming that if we are in a simulation, it must be imperfect. On a less serious note, reading this reminded me of this Hitchhiker's guide to the galaxy quote: Quote: There is a theory which states that if ever anyone discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable. There is another theory which states that this has already happened. I mean, if we ever figure out that we are in a simulation, would the programmers really allow the simulation to continue, or would they just consider the whole thing a failure and start over?

Author:	Cato [ Mon Nov 25, 2013 1:40 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: The Matrix
What makes you think that they would consider it a failure? Maybe that would be their idea of success.

Author:	thedevilwuster [ Mon Nov 25, 2013 1:44 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: The Matrix
I'm a big believer of multiperson solopsism. It basically boils down to what you perceive as real can only be so if more than yourself agrees that it is. It really opens up alternate dimensions to some mindblowing possibilities including alternates universes for every book that at least two people have read and internally agreed to the imagery and intent. Want to go to Middle Earth? It does exist, you just need to figure out how to get there. Jesus hinted to the theory when he stated, "when two or more are gathered in my name, there shall I be in their midst." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solipsism

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Author:	Filobel [ Mon Nov 25, 2013 3:56 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: The Matrix
Cato wrote: What makes you think that they would consider it a failure? Maybe that would be their idea of success. Maybe. I don't pretend I know the reason why these beings would even create the simulation in the first place. However, it seems that, if their goal was for us to discover that we were in a simulation, they could have just created a huge floating sign that says "You guys are being simulated by a computer". If their goal was to see if an entity intelligent enough to realise and prove it was simulated could evolve from their simulation, then the moment we do discover that we are in a simulation, they have their result and the simulation is no longer needed.

Author:	YingLung [ Mon Nov 25, 2013 5:49 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: The Matrix
Personally, I don't understand what they are testing with the cosmic ray stuff. If we are dispaced from the point of the Big Bang, then whatever rays that started there should have passed us long ago, and depending on the shape of space, do almost anything. This article reminds me of how we deal with dreams; while we are in them, we don't notice how it diverges from what we know of reality. When we do, we immediately exploit any reality (dream) warping power we have. One wonders if we are mentally capable of paying attention to glitches in our universe, or if that is supressed by the coding of the simulation. Also, I doubt scientists could prove anything is a glitch, and not yet another corner of quantum mechanics that escapes our comprehension. We still have no idea of how gravity is exerted, and we are barely able to make a particle that we think is responsible for mass. Of course, all this assumes that the simulation has glitches to find. To quote some relevant fanfiction: Quote: MORPHEUS: For the longest time, I wouldn't believe it. But then I saw the fields with my own eyes, watched them liquefy the dead so they could be fed intravenously to the living - NEO (politely): Excuse me, please. MORPHEUS: Yes, Neo? NEO: I've kept quiet for as long as I could, but I feel a certain need to speak up at this point. The human body is the most inefficient source of energy you could possibly imagine. The efficiency of a power plant at converting thermal energy into electricity decreases as you run the turbines at lower temperatures. If you had any sort of food humans could eat, it would be more efficient to burn it in a furnace than feed it to humans. And now you're telling me that their food is the bodies of the dead, fed to the living? Haven't you ever heard of the laws of thermodynamics? MORPHEUS: Where did you hear about the laws of thermodynamics, Neo? NEO: Anyone who's made it past one science class in high school ought to know about the laws of thermodynamics! MORPHEUS: Where did you go to high school, Neo? (Pause.) NEO: ...in the Matrix. MORPHEUS: The machines tell elegant lies. (Pause.) NEO (in a small voice): Could I please have a real physics textbook? MORPHEUS: There is no such thing, Neo. The universe doesn't run on math. from here: http://hpmor.com/chapter/64

Author:	Hakeem928 [ Mon Nov 25, 2013 6:04 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: The Matrix
You need to get off the "simulation" terminology and read some Hermetic philosophy. Look up the Kybalion and do some poking around with that line of thought. Basically the point is that the Universe is created in the mind of "The All". It's not so much that the universe is a simulation, but rather that it is a thought. Then the question arises, why does The All think it? But The All merely thinks because it thinks, for it is both cause and effect at the same time.

Author:	Hakeem928 [ Mon Nov 25, 2013 6:30 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: The Matrix
Very light read here. Not the best, but you can do your own research! http://www.virtualsynapses.com/2010/07/ ... s.html?m=1

Author:	MagicPablo666 [ Mon Nov 25, 2013 6:55 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: The Matrix
YingLung wrote: Of course, all this assumes that the simulation has glitches to find. To quote some relevant fanfiction: Quote: MORPHEUS: For the longest time, I wouldn't believe it. But then I saw the fields with my own eyes, watched them liquefy the dead so they could be fed intravenously to the living - NEO (politely): Excuse me, please. MORPHEUS: Yes, Neo? NEO: I've kept quiet for as long as I could, but I feel a certain need to speak up at this point. The human body is the most inefficient source of energy you could possibly imagine. The efficiency of a power plant at converting thermal energy into electricity decreases as you run the turbines at lower temperatures. If you had any sort of food humans could eat, it would be more efficient to burn it in a furnace than feed it to humans. And now you're telling me that their food is the bodies of the dead, fed to the living? Haven't you ever heard of the laws of thermodynamics? MORPHEUS: Where did you hear about the laws of thermodynamics, Neo? NEO: Anyone who's made it past one science class in high school ought to know about the laws of thermodynamics! MORPHEUS: Where did you go to high school, Neo? (Pause.) NEO: ...in the Matrix. MORPHEUS: The machines tell elegant lies. (Pause.) NEO (in a small voice): Could I please have a real physics textbook? MORPHEUS: There is no such thing, Neo. The universe doesn't run on math. from here: http://hpmor.com/chapter/64 Thank you for this. Long has that scene been a thorn in my side. Now I can enjoy this movie just a little bit more. I'm not sure about the cosmic ray stuff either, but I completely agree with you re:confirming a glitch. It seems improbable. Hakeem: Are you talking to me? If so, I'm not sure about this Kybalion stuff. It makes me feel like I should be burning sage and drinking kombucha. . .

Author:	Hakeem928 [ Mon Nov 25, 2013 7:53 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: The Matrix
I'm just kind of talking to everybody, really. I'm not saying I endorse the doctrine entirely, and I'm not a "hippie-weirdo" by any stretch. But a lot of the ideas in there are really good if you can trim out the chaff.