I'm sorry, but that math is horribly horribly off. According to the entire fact that limits exist in calculus period. That's why lim x-> 0 of sinx/x is 1 instead of being undefined.

Long story short limits teach us that numbers only become infinite when approaching infinity or negative infinity or in rare cases division by zero in some forms of math. Approaching 1 doesn't count as any of those.

That's not how that works. 1/3 is approximately .3333333333333 and 2/3 is approximately .6666666666666666. But they are not actually those values. They are just close approximations. Meaning that they aren't equivalent. .3333333333333 + .6666666666 = .99999999, but that does not mean 1/3 + 2/3 is approximately .999999999. It's just 1.

The decimal system is limited in the numbers that it can express. We have to accept that the concept of 1/3 is simply not expressable in decimal and use the closest expressable number instead.

That's why I think it foolish that people are trying to figure out the value of Pi. It simply isn't expressable by the decimal system, and attempting to express it that way is simply an exercise in futility.

Back on topic, don't think of "things" as their manifestations, but rather think of them as concepts. Take "nothing" for example. What is it? Well, it's a state where there is no thing. That's really strange, if you think about it. The concept of "nothing" requires the concept of "thing" in order to exist. The reverse is true, as well. Once we start thinking about the conceptual realm instead of the physical, a lot more can become apparent.

Think about this; for every concept "X", there must be a concept "not X". For every concept "not Y", there must be a concept "Y". Each concept implies the other, but neither creates the other. The two exist as one. See above that 0+1=2, simplified to 1=2. So everything is nothing, and nothing is everything.

I guess what I'm saying is that reality =/= existence. Reality is indeed real, it just doesn't actually exist outside of the mind like we think it does. So the Universe is merely an idea with no actual physical substance. The physical realm is "real" insofar as we perceive it, but it doesn't actually "exist". Does that make sense?

Ew. What have I stumbled into. Are we all getting stoned and talking about math that we may or may not understand? Didn't you suckas hear? The universe is just a hologram.

Sounds nice. But we don't suddenly get to claim the laws of physics no longer exist either. An object cannot travel an infinite distance in a straight line in a finite space. No amount of "reality =/= existence" can really get around that.

And funny thing is.... I do get the math involved. Limits are very very simple calculus compared to a lot of things.

Replace "a hologram" with "an idea" and we agree.

And I don't get stoned anymore, I'm a grown-up now.

You're not getting it. There is no object and there is no space. That's why there is an object in that space.

Also, finite is just "less infinite". Finite is still infinite, though.

Philosophy is nice for a while. But it doesn't last for me. Sorry. I can reach out and touch my keyboard. There is a finite space between my hand and the keys. To me, it's not an idea. It's a fact. I am touching it. It's not an idea, because my senses say it's actually there. And....... at some point, you have to trust your senses, or you can't believe anything. That is how we, as human beings, develop and grow. It's where our entire system of scientific knowledge came from. And it's the reason we can have this discussion right now.

You can't actually touch your keyboard. Even Physics will tell you that. The atoms in your fingertips cannot come into direct contact with the atoms in the keyboard.

Tell that to Duke Nukem 3D.

This quote is awesome regarding the notion that all things are merely ideas that don't really "exist":

"You are what you think, not what you think you are."

Here's some interesting reading I found with a Google search that will probably appeal to the more "scientific" minds around here:

http://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=301495

Looking back, the mathematical representation of everything being defined by its absence and vice versa is inaccurate.
It is 1+-1=0, where 0 represents the whole of reality.
Finite means there are boundaries. That there is an infinitely large array of numbers within that subset, does not mean that the boundaries do not exist. It just means that splitting hairs becomes a little more literal when someone talks about infinite fractions between two values.

The set of numbers between 0 and 1 is measurable, and therefore finite. Go catch up on your Russell already.

I agree about the boundaries existing, but the only way to fit infinite somethings inside those boundaries is if those somethings are actually nothings.

Like I said earlier, some infinities are "bigger" than others. Consider "all the multiples of 2" vs. "all the multiples of 3". Both are infinite, but there are more multiples of 2.

Between any two points there must be a halfway point. If there is not, then they are the same point. Once you create a new halfway point, more halfway points are created. This continues to infinity. If it does not continue to infinity, then all the points are the same point.